Input on professional furnace/tankless water heater install (bad work)

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Corman2000, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Corman2000

    Corman2000 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2020
    Location:
    Vancouver BC
    Hey guys,

    Recently hired a company to replace a water tank with HE tankless, and a new HE furnace. It's pretty obvious it's at best a sloppy job and as a new home owner I was hoping for some input prior to talking to the company. I'm just going to list the things I think are wrong, and if you guys care to comment or let me know what's worth arguing over it would be appreciated. I know some of these are minor, but some are not.


    -Firstly we didn't get the furnace we were quoted on and OKed. Quoted a Ducane 95G2DF090CV20 and got an Ameristar A952V060BD3S. Totally different company/unit. I don't know enough about furnaces to see if it was a lateral move or we got shorted.
    -They charged the remainder of the balance without permission. Paid the deposit on CC, and the remainder was drawn prior to us getting the invoice to do so.
    -I've not noticed any change in the furnace operation. I'm not sure how a dual stage furnace should operate, but it doesn't act noticeably different than a single stage at this point. Still drops to 19° before coming on and running to 21°.

    -I've yet to go on the roof due to rain. But the exhaust pipes are obviously crooked, different lengths (one appears to have a female fitting), and probably longer that is correct. Intake pipe is crooked as well, but probably close enough.
    -we were told they intended to use the existing B-vent through roof. Then they didn't. Not a big deal but now I have to remove a B vent from my new roof.

    In the attic: General video here:



    -did not replace the attic hatch properly and knocked some trim loose.
    -intake/exhaust pipes are either totally unsupported or effectively unsupported
    -insulation not reinstalled.
    -scrap pipes and garbage left in attic

    Crawlspace:
    -light left on. Was 10 days before I went in and saw it.
    -scrap left in crawlspace
    -the condesate drain ties to our sink drain via a Wye. Pretty sure the Wye is installed backwards (I understand only drips are expected but still). Also this connection ruined the downward slope of the sink drain. Hard to eyeball, but it's either level, or going uphill for a couple feet.

    Furnace/Water tank room: General video here:



    -Furnace exhaust pipe totally unsupported from furnace to roof (manual says every 4ft)
    -no attempt to air seal holes in ceiling or floor (and no conversation to tell us to do so if not part of plumber's job)
    -drywall chunks and PVC shavings in water heater intake
    -accumulator not secured to anything. This may be normal?
    -intake PVC pipes not glued
    -water heater is supposed to have drainpan under for warranty purposes
    -furnace exhaust has one clamp not installed correctly
    -furnace condensate drain hose appears to run uphill, as does the ABS it goes to.
    -brass cap on bottom of water heater not installed
    -B vent was capped, but not sealed with tape?
    -we were told to talk to the installer about filter options as our electric filter was not working. He said to remove the electric charged parts and use a panel filter in the electric filter box so I OKed that. Looked and it has ~1/2" gap for air to flow around the filter. I've taped it temporarily and it's probably acceptably sealed now? Just sits flat on sheetmetal.

    Any and all input is welcome. Thanks!

    Cory

    PS: I would have done most of the install myself, but we had to hire someone to get gov't rebates.

    roof.jpg wye.jpg dirty filter.jpg
     
  2. WorthFlorida

    WorthFlorida The wife is still training me.

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    I cannot help on your issues but most places a permit is needed for a furnace installation, new or a replacement. If there was no permit issued, contact your local jurisdiction permit office and inquire. If one was needed file a complaint against the company. Also look on the contract, some will list a fee permit, usually the fee required to obtain one by the local government. Talk to an inspector and he may take a look at the work. A bad install can mean carbon monoxide leaking into the space. Just to play it safe you can buy CO sensor/alarms that plug into outlets or a battery operated one for the ceiling.

    In Florida a permit is needed to replace the central air conditioning. It doesn't need to be in hand before work begins since is awfully hard to live with AC in the Florida summers even for one day. But with online filing it can be applied for on the same day.
     
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  4. Stuff

    Stuff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    From the model numbers they sold you a 90K BTU furnace but installed a 60K BTU furnace. Should be enough to dispute the charges for your credit card company.

    Have you spoken with the owner of the company that did the installation? Start there.
     
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  5. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Occupation:
    plumbing - fire suppression - boiler inspector
    Location:
    New York
    First call the owner THEN the local code officials then a lawyer

    Shame this is not in the tristate area as I would love to be an expert witness against these $##@!
     
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  6. James Henry

    James Henry In the Trades

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2019
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Billings, Montana.

    Do they have" expert witnesses" for contractors that charge astronomical prices?
     
  7. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Occupation:
    plumbing - fire suppression - boiler inspector
    Location:
    New York
    I work for 38 law firms and there is no such thing as "astronomical prices" in my expert opinion

    Contractors who are in business need to crunch their numbers and know the actual turn key numbers when owning business

    On one master plumbers exam a few questions dealt with overhead, fixed expenses , job expenses etc. to calculate profit and loss

    Too many plumbers play who can work the cheapest and eventually they go under after ruining it for the legitimate contractors

    My top employee I was paying him $125 PER HR ($5,000 per week) 3 weeks ago I signed over 49% of my company to him and he still makes $5000 a week but now he has 49% profit sharing .


    He is working for me 31/2 years and in America for 5 years (Albanian) with work ethics.

    So far he has brought in new accounts nursing homes ,schools and increased my gross by several million dollars with less employees

    Yet there are morons that charge less then I am paying my employees and think working for a "days pay" is ok

    It is like getting an oil change for
    a Bugatti Veyron oil change costs $21,000 some would say "its outrageous" Yet people do it

    This is not the most expensive oil change out there

    In life you normally get what you pay for

    Yes one can go to Jiffy lube and save a fortune but I doubt it would be the same type of services rendered

    I took my Lexus to the dealership and requested Mobil one and rotate the tires they charged me $69.00

    WHY

    Because I bought three cars from them and made a deal they would also service my BMW 750 I as the BMW dealership cannot be trusted.I do not mind paying the $275 for an oil change it is the "extras" they seem to add on

    What
    amazes me is the guys out there that do a free video inspection and I charge $350 per half hr.

    In my opinion they do not think like a professional . Does a hospital do a free colonoscopy and then say ITS FREE if you need surgery?

    The Video camera I bought new off E bay for $350.00 and used it over the past three week 11 times

    I calculated wear and tear on the
    equipment and my continuing education to keep abreast of code changes and also what kind of life style I want my employees and myself to have

    Working cheap is robbing the family for having a better quality of life

    If accounts think I am over
    priced there are 1,250 Master plumbers in NYC I am sure they can shop around for a cheaper contractor


     

    Attached Files:

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  8. James Henry

    James Henry In the Trades

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2019
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Billings, Montana.
    Blah, Blah, Blah. NYC needs to break off and float away.
     
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  9. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Occupation:
    plumbing - fire suppression - boiler inspector
    Location:
    New York
    Henry (HANK) I can tell your are senator material as you are in great company if you think an island like Manhattan can float away"

    You may want to consider going to some classes for formal training as it does separate the non skilled from a professional

    HERE is a link so you can learn for this honorable senator who you can agree with about floating and tipping over land masses



     
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