Incoming Water Pressure Booster Failed - Replace or CSV?

[carlopop]

Hello, I've owned my property for just under 10 years. It is a 3 plex apartment house on top of a hill in Toronto. The incoming pressure is about 30 PSI. When we bought the place, there was an old jet pump / pressure switch set up with an upstream pressure tank equipped with a vacuum breaker and air vent ( I assume used as a draw down tank to mimic a well water supply) to provide sufficient pressure/flow for all 3 units. As the pump aged, it became really loud (howling) so we replaced it with a SCALA2, and kept the draw down tank to help with the volume.

The SCALA2 worked for about ~5-6 years of use. Upon calling around, I learned that these pumps are not repairable and are made for replacing. I'm not very keen on dropping another ~$1800 for only 5 years of use. We've since moved out and manage the property as a rental so would rather install something we can forget about (even at the expense of slight inefficiencies).

I had come across the CSV product but due to lack of familiarity with these issues in the market (pressure isn't typically a problem in Toronto) and it typically being a well water application I proceeded with the SCALA2 install. Based on what I've read, the CSV could be a solution and I'd like to explore this if it checks my boxes but I'm still not entirely sure it is 100% right for my application.


I'd really appreciate help from the forum on the following questions:

1) Was the failure due to piping configuration/use or just hit life expectancy? (amateur DIY plumber)
2) Can the CSV solution be used for my incoming water pressure/flow issue?
3) What is the right size pump? Should i really be sizing for ~30gpm? Would it be the J10S?
4) Is the Red Lion a good comp. to the Goulds J10S ? : https://redlionproducts.com/cleanwater/premium-cast-iron-shallow-well-jet-pump-rjs-prem-series/
5) If CSV is the right solution, would it be the PK1A-LT (Assuming i can reuse my 10GA Exp-tank)?
6) Should I be piping this any differently?

 

[Valveman]

Built with planned obsolescence and getting 1800 bucks of your money every few years as the primary design criteria, you got more life from the Scala than most people do. Its life was probably extended because you kept the bladder tank, which takes a lot of cycling load off of any pump.

There are many regular jet pumps with pressure tanks that have lasted 30-50 years without any maintenance. Adding a Cycle Stop Valve to one of these type systems will make it last even longer and deliver strong constant pressure to the house. Of course that is exactly why pump manufacturers don't like Cycle Stop Valves and spend millions pushing cheaply built, complicated and computerized systems that are suppose to mimic the performance of a Cycle Stop Valve without shooting their planned obsolescence goals in the foot.

I am not sure the Goulds is any better than the Red Lion as they have cheapened up even the major brand name pumps. But since cycling on and off is the most common reason for a pump failure, adding a Cycle Stop Valve will make even a cheap pump last many times longer than expected.

The PK1A kit with the 4.5 or 10 gallon tank will work with just about any pump. But if the tank and pressure switch you have is still good, all you need is the CSV1A valve plumbed between the pump and pressure tank/switch.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[carlopop]

Built with planned obsolescence and getting 1800 bucks of your money every few years as the primary design criteria, you got more life from the Scala than most people do. Its life was probably extended because you kept the bladder tank, which takes a lot of cycling load off of any pump.

There are many regular jet pumps with pressure tanks that have lasted 30-50 years without any maintenance. Adding a Cycle Stop Valve to one of these type systems will make it last even longer and deliver strong constant pressure to the house. Of course that is exactly why pump manufacturers don't like Cycle Stop Valves and spend millions pushing cheaply built, complicated and computerized systems that are suppose to mimic the performance of a Cycle Stop Valve without shooting their planned obsolescence goals in the foot.

I am not sure the Goulds is any better than the Red Lion as they have cheapened up even the major brand name pumps. But since cycling on and off is the most common reason for a pump failure, adding a Cycle Stop Valve will make even a cheap pump last many times longer than expected.

The PK1A kit with the 4.5 or 10 gallon tank will work with just about any pump. But if the tank and pressure switch you have is still good, all you need is the CSV1A valve plumbed between the pump and pressure tank/switch.

View attachment 95914

Built with planned obsolescence and getting 1800 bucks of your money every few years as the primary design criteria, you got more life from the Scala than most people do. Its life was probably extended because you kept the bladder tank, which takes a lot of cycling load off of any pump.

There are many regular jet pumps with pressure tanks that have lasted 30-50 years without any maintenance. Adding a Cycle Stop Valve to one of these type systems will make it last even longer and deliver strong constant pressure to the house. Of course that is exactly why pump manufacturers don't like Cycle Stop Valves and spend millions pushing cheaply built, complicated and computerized systems that are suppose to mimic the performance of a Cycle Stop Valve without shooting their planned obsolescence goals in the foot.

I am not sure the Goulds is any better than the Red Lion as they have cheapened up even the major brand name pumps. But since cycling on and off is the most common reason for a pump failure, adding a Cycle Stop Valve will make even a cheap pump last many times longer than expected.

The PK1A kit with the 4.5 or 10 gallon tank will work with just about any pump. But if the tank and pressure switch you have is still good, all you need is the CSV1A valve plumbed between the pump and pressure tank/switch.

View attachment 95914

Thanks for the quick feedback @Valveman! Any feedback on the pump size I should be planning for?

Also can the CSV1A be mounted in the vertical orientation?

 

[Bannerman]

I met with a customer on Thursday, whose relative in Toronto is experiencing a very similar issue. He was under the mistaken understanding (YTube) that only a pressure tank and pressure switch is all that is necessary to boost the pressure within the dwelling, even when no pump is utilized.

Although you understand a pump is utilized to boost pressure, your diagram shows a 40-gallon pressure tank plumbed in after the meter but before the pump. That pressure tank will be unnecessary and ineffective as your pump should be drawing directly from the municipal main.

I suspect the undersized 5/8" supply line before the meter is restricting flow to your 3 units, but that in itself should not cause low static water pressure supplied to the property.

You didn't state how and when the 30 psi was measured as static pressure (while no water is being utilized after the meter) will be often higher compared to the pressure while water is being utilized.

I'd be surprised for the municipal static pressure to be only 30 psi as most municipal systems usually provide 50-60 psi. Due to elevation variances throughout the city, that system is divided into 12 pressure districts, with 40 psi as the lowest supplied pressure, and 115 psi supplied to locations where the elevation further rises.

If the 30 psi was measured while some water was being consumed, I would then suspect a supply valve maybe partially closed or damaged. Suspect valves include those shown on each side of the meter, any valves located prior to the pressure test location, and the curb stop which is located underground and owned by the water supplier. Suggest contacting your water supplier to ask about the pressure supplied to your district, and ask them to verify the curb stop supplying your property is fully open.

 

[carlopop]

Thanks for the feedback @Bannerman. I will confirm the static pressure when I return but I’m certain its less than 40psi. Back in 2017 I too questioned the supply pressure with the city and had requested to validate whether this was a supply issue by requesting a flow test by the city. The outcome of which absolved them of any necessary action.

The pressure tank, which I also deliberated removing, I learned acted as a draw down tank thst would provide the necessary volume beyond what was available through the 5/8” line. It acted as atmospheric through the vacuum breaker/ air vent devices mounted at the top.

I cannot upgrade my service for feasibility reasons as it would be an invasive ordeal (The line runs underneath the entire house from the front).

Nonetheless I know I have a problem myself because I cannot effectively run a washing machine when a shower or other consumptions are taking place. This is an impairment my tenants should not reasonably have to endure.

Happy for any help in the matter.

 

[Valveman]

Thanks for the quick feedback @Valveman! Any feedback on the pump size I should be planning for?

Also can the CSV1A be mounted in the vertical orientation?

The CSV can be in any position. The CSV also lets you install as large a pump as you may need for multiple occupants, yet makes it work like a small pump when only one person is using water. With the PK1A and a 10 gallon tank the J15S will run about 5 houses. The J15S also has a max pressure of 83 PSI, so it will work with a 50/70 pressure switch and the CSV set to maintain a constant 60 PSI. Not only should you be able to run multiple taps at the same time, but also should no longer need soap in the showers. Lol!