Hydrocare HC38 Thoughts???

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Scott D. Plumber

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two weeks with my hydrocare

I'm two weeks in. I have had aerators plugged up by the removed scale (two year old house), dishes are now spotless, inside of SS dishwasher is cleaner that it has been since the first use.

My chrome shower valves which used to be almost white are almost completely clean now. I started by wiping them while showering with a wet washcloth and they were getting shiny fast, so I cleaned them with a deliming cleaner and removed almost all of the scale. (Stuff’s hard to get off!) Also cleaned around kitchen sink to remove scale and got most of it. (Dang that stuff is hard to get off!)

So far there is no additional build up at all. If water dries it will leave a fine powder (Yes, the harness is still there) but it does not stick to anything and easily wipes away instead of turning to cement.

I believe that there are plenty of issues that this device will not help with (Such as PH issues), however, if scale is the main problem, so far, I have to say it’s working and doing what it said it would do. My Rinnai tankless water heater have never been de-scaled. They are 2 years old and do not have my water hardness since I have not done a test.

Now if I can get the scale out of the black drip tray of the water dispenser on my fridge that would really be a test! Any ideas?
 

99k

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I'm two weeks in. I have had aerators plugged up by the removed scale (two year old house), dishes are now spotless, inside of SS dishwasher is cleaner that it has been since the first use.

My chrome shower valves which used to be almost white are almost completely clean now. I started by wiping them while showering with a wet washcloth and they were getting shiny fast, so I cleaned them with a deliming cleaner and removed almost all of the scale. (Stuff’s hard to get off!) Also cleaned around kitchen sink to remove scale and got most of it. (Dang that stuff is hard to get off!)

So far there is no additional build up at all. If water dries it will leave a fine powder (Yes, the harness is still there) but it does not stick to anything and easily wipes away instead of turning to cement.

I believe that there are plenty of issues that this device will not help with (Such as PH issues), however, if scale is the main problem, so far, I have to say it’s working and doing what it said it would do. My Rinnai tankless water heater have never been de-scaled. They are 2 years old and do not have my water hardness since I have not done a test.

Now if I can get the scale out of the black drip tray of the water dispenser on my fridge that would really be a test! Any ideas?

Are you the author of the book in your avatar?
 

Terrydbhm

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I'm two weeks in. I have had aerators plugged up by the removed scale (two year old house), dishes are now spotless, inside of SS dishwasher is cleaner that it has been since the first use.

My chrome shower valves which used to be almost white are almost completely clean now. I started by wiping them while showering with a wet washcloth and they were getting shiny fast, so I cleaned them with a deliming cleaner and removed almost all of the scale. (Stuff’s hard to get off!) Also cleaned around kitchen sink to remove scale and got most of it. (Dang that stuff is hard to get off!)

So far there is no additional build up at all. If water dries it will leave a fine powder (Yes, the harness is still there) but it does not stick to anything and easily wipes away instead of turning to cement.

I believe that there are plenty of issues that this device will not help with (Such as PH issues), however, if scale is the main problem, so far, I have to say it’s working and doing what it said it would do. My Rinnai tankless water heater have never been de-scaled. They are 2 years old and do not have my water hardness since I have not done a test.

Now if I can get the scale out of the black drip tray of the water dispenser on my fridge that would really be a test! Any ideas?

Scott, you have done something that the naysayers in this forum will probably never do, get a Hydrocare unit and test it for themselves before they criticise and downplay its positive benefits. I think your testimony and plumbing background speaks for itself and you can not be accused of being a plant for Hydrocare like I have been. Maybe the "bunch of knowledgable guys" in this forum might just learn something, but I do not hold out much hope. I am well into my third week and am still amazed at how this little unit attached to my water pipe works so well.

Since you have a Rinnai tankless water heater, you might find this interesting. I have talked with 2 Rinnai distributors in the South and East Coast who now recommend to all of their plumbing installers that a Hydrocare unit be installed with all new Rinnai installations. By the way both of them have no connections with Hydrocare and only recommend the installation to prevent problems down the road with their customers. In both cases they were skeptical at first of the technology, but after buying units and trying them out in their own homes and doing very a complete investigation into other tests and research they became believers.

You mentioned how hard it is to remove the hard water build up on on the plumbing fixtures and the drip tray in the Fridge. I have been an avid user of a product introduced by Billy Mays, Kaboom and it works great on hard-water scale. I use to use it every week on our shower glass doors, but since the installation of my Hydrocare unit I have not it used once. I hope I do not I get accused of being a plant for Kaboom!:p
 
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Gary Slusser

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When you wipe off the shower walls and door, you prevent any water spots or scale formation.

So if you want to test this thing, stop wiping the water off things as you obviously didn't do in the past or you wouldn't have been using Kaboom, right? Then let us know how much 'dust' you let build up before wiping it up.
 

Terrydbhm

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When you wipe off the shower walls and door, you prevent any water spots or scale formation.

So if you want to test this thing, stop wiping the water off things as you obviously didn't do in the past or you wouldn't have been using Kaboom, right? Then let us know how much 'dust' you let build up before wiping it up.

Gary, I do not know about Scott but I have not been wiping down the shower glass doors or walls during my test. Except at the end of week 2, I had a few spots that I wiped down with a damp cloth to remove the powder like spots from the glass. The spots were nothing like what I got on a weekly basis before the Hydrocare installation. The spots were very light and hardly noticeable maybe 5% or less of what I got before. Before hydrocare the water scale spots could not have been removed with just a damp cloth, as I had to use a strong chemical like Kaboom and a lot of elbow grease to get the cement like spots off the glass every week.
 
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Terrydbhm

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Hydrocare test results after 3 weeks

Week Three:
• The very minimal evaporative spotting on the shower glass is about the same as the end of week 2. This week I did not make any attempts to remove the spots with a damp cloth as last week. My observation is that the powdery spots from using the shower the previous day are washed away by the next days shower and do not accumulate any more than just the one day’s use.
• One regret is that I did not measure the temperature of our hot water prior to the test. Both my wife and I have noticed that in our shower the water temperature setting on the shower control has to be set lower than before the test, which is indicative of hotter water. If this is the case I can assume that much of the scale build up on the heat exchanger in the water heater has already been removed which will make the unit much more energy efficient.
• The lime scale on our shower head is now almost totally gone.
• Have not seen any lime scale build up returning to any of our appliances and plumbing fixtures. This is really noticeable on the black kitchen sink and faucet which has been an ongoing issue for years. See my reference to this issue in week one’s summary.
:)
 

lmckenty

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I'm pleased with my Hydrocare

I bought two units, one for my home and one for my pool. I saw results with my pool first. I have rocks around our hot tub with a waterfall. The daily running water built up scale on the rocks. After 3 months after installing the unit the scale started to disappear and the rocks became the correct color. The unit in our home has helped my showers and dishwasher. It takes time but I have seen the results.
 

ecarothe

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warranty?

This device only emits a radio frequency into the plumbing system. There are no moving parts. So why do they only offer a 3 year limited warranty for a $1000 investment? I asked them to send me the independant labratory results including before and after pictures.

I'm all for trying something new, but this price is too high to have it break or loose it's effectiveness after 3 years. Any thoughts, please comment.
 

Terrydbhm

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This device only emits a radio frequency into the plumbing system. There are no moving parts. So why do they only offer a 3 year limited warranty for a $1000 investment? I asked them to send me the independant labratory results including before and after pictures.

I'm all for trying something new, but this price is too high to have it break or loose it's effectiveness after 3 years. Any thoughts, please comment.

I do not know where you got the pricing of $1000? The suggested retail price for the HC-44 unit is only $645 and some dealers are selling them for around $600. I do not know who you asked about for the independent lab results but it is available online and Onspex will also send you copies.

As for the warranty I have no answer as to why for only 3 years, but with no moving parts it should last for many more. The manufacturer also offers a one year 100% money back satisfaction guarantee as well.
 
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dooh

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Are You For Real?

Ok, i am not a plumber at all or claim to even know much about it.

I am a noob.

I was researching this hydrocare thing and found this site.

You are all talking way above my head, but.......

I do agree with the "plant" theory because

1) Mr. Alabama Pure Water Company...Why cant I find a hit on Google or Bing for your company?????? What is your web site address? Let me guess, you dont have one and if I send my cousin into your actual location in Alabama (if it exists) I bet you would be selling this HydroCrap.

2) The - How to make millions in plumbing - guy - why are the plumbers on this site not filthy rich???

3) What kind of company does not even put a price on their product on the website?? Why do I have to be "Contacted" by some shady Slick guy just to ask the price??

4) If this product is Soooo Great! why does my local Major Harware company not carry it next to the other water products??

I am tending to side with those ACTUAL plumber that are on this forum.

Thanks Guys for all your advice.

**PS i forgot to mention that Scott and Alabama are on each others "Friends" list ??? Nice!
 
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Terrydbhm

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Talk about a "Plant"

Ok, i am not a plumber at all or claim to even know much about it.


1) Mr. Alabama Pure Water Company...Why cant I find a hit on Google or Bing for your company?????? What is your web site address? Let me guess, you dont have one and if I send my cousin into your actual location in Alabama (if it exists) I bet you would be selling this HydroCrap.

2) The - How to make millions in plumbing - guy - why are the plumbers on this site not filthy rich???

3) What kind of company does not even put a price on their product on the website?? Why do I have to be "Contacted" by some shady Slick guy just to ask the price??

4) If this product is Soooo Great! why does my local Major Harware company not carry it next to the other water products??

**PS i forgot to mention that Scott and Alabama are on each others "Friends" list ??? Nice!

Here we go another possible first time poster who may in fact be a "Plant" who feels like he should make personal attacks to make his point. Notice his attacks are directed at only Scott the Plumber and myself.

I also would like to adress your attack talking points.

1) You say you Googled my company and couldn't find my website, funny thing I just Googled Alabama Pure Water and guess what my website came up first in the list of hits. (Andy, thank you for posting it for me). Please send your cousin to my business as I do sell Hydrocare as a result of my investigation of the product and personal use of it in my own home. I already have several very satisfied homeowner Hydrocare customers. I also have a couple of very happy commercial customers as well. I believe that your criticism of my postings is based upon your belief that because I sell the product I am endorsing it on this forum. I sell the product because I believe in it and have seem first hand that it works as claimed. In fact at the time of my first postings in July I was not selling the product just doing my due diligence on it to make a rational decision about representing it in my market.

If selling a product should preclude me from posting and promoting it on this forum, then most of the plumbers and or water treatment professionals on this forum should not be posting as they may sell and install some brand of traditional water softener which they endorse on this forum.

2) What does being filthy rich as a plumber have to do with the discussion on this forum? I know many plumbers and plumbing companies that have done very well in the past financially, but it neither adds or detracts form their credibility to post on this forum, I think I hear a hint of financial jealousy.

3) There are thousands of very legitimate companies who do not post prices on their products on their website for many different reasons. I recently bought a Ricoh Copier and when I looked at their website for doing my research about their products they have no prices for their products. Using your logic one of the largest copier companies in the world must illegitimate. After contacting Ricoh I was directed to their local dealer where I purchased my copier and by the way the dealer's website had no pricing as well.

4) I know that Ferguson Plumbing in several of their markets represents Hydrocare and Ferguson is one of the largest national wholesale plumbing companies in the country. Hydrocare technology is relatively new to the US and as times goes on more and more companies will be selling this product. Thousands of everyday products have had slow starts in marketing but have gone on to be extremely successful. Oxyclean is a great example, when first introduced in the early 90's it was sold exclusively on TV by the pitchman Billy Mays and today it is sold in hundred of thousands of retail stores worldwide. By the way "Dooh" I do not sell Oxyclean and am not endorsing it here, Ha Ha.:p

Finally I am proud to admit that Scott the Plumber and myself are on this forum's friends list as a result of making contact through this forum.:D

Dooh, if you have any comments to make on this forum about Hydrocare as a result of your expert knowledge or experience with the product or any other water softening technology, please make them, otherwise take your personal attacks and go somewhere else.!!!:p
 
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NHmaster

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http://www.chem1.com/CQ/hardwater.html

The above links and the links therein give a pretty good analysis of some of the "non traditional" methods of water treatment. These products come and go from the market and have for a number of years, the latest being Easy Water which you may have seen advertised on TV and the radio. There is some marginal evidence that may (or may not) validate the products claims. However it is important to note that for any real and verifiable change to a waters mineral or chemical content to occur, products with a proven track record should be your first choice. I note there is some discussion as to price of these alternate treatment methods. Though you may indeed be able to purchase and install the unit for as much as perhaps 1/4 of what traditional equipment will cost, it is important to cost that against the overall effectiveness of the product.
Part of the reason the cost is much much less is that the companies making these things figure that the average person will not bother to file a claim or return the product when they discover it is not doing what they though it would. If it was priced competitively with standard equipment, the return rate would be much much higher.

If there is anyone who can prove conclusively that their product will compete head to head with a standard water softener, under the same water conditions, I would like to see those results.
 

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http://www.chem1.com/CQ/hardwater.html

The above links and the links therein give a pretty good analysis of some of the "non traditional" methods of water treatment. These products come and go from the market and have for a number of years, the latest being Easy Water which you may have seen advertised on TV and the radio. There is some marginal evidence that may (or may not) validate the products claims. However it is important to note that for any real and verifiable change to a waters mineral or chemical content to occur, products with a proven track record should be your first choice. I note there is some discussion as to price of these alternate treatment methods. Though you may indeed be able to purchase and install the unit for as much as perhaps 1/4 of what traditional equipment will cost, it is important to cost that against the overall effectiveness of the product.
Part of the reason the cost is much much less is that the companies making these things figure that the average person will not bother to file a claim or return the product when they discover it is not doing what they though it would. If it was priced competitively with standard equipment, the return rate would be much much higher.

If there is anyone who can prove conclusively that their product will compete head to head with a standard water softener, under the same water conditions, I would like to see those results.

Peter I have to agree with you that there are many bogus products out there that claim to soften water without salt or chemicals. I do not believe that Hydrocare is one of those products. Hydrocare nowhere claims to "soften" water but only to treat and condition hard water to prevent and remove lime scale buildup with out salt, chemicals or magnetics. If anyone does some easy do diligence you will find where this product has been validated all over the world. Hydrocare uses a world wide patented technology called Hydropath.

This technology is relatively new in the USA, less than 2 years, but was developed in the UK over 10 years ago. British Gas the largest gas and heating utility in the UK did much testing on the Hydropath units (the name Hydrocare is sold under in the UK) and it is the only product they endorse for lime scale prevention in all new installations of water heaters, heat exchangers, dish washers and boilers to their customers. This endorsement can be found on British Gas's web site. BG does not endorse any salt brine water softeners because they do not remove current lime scale build up and are not friendly to the environment. In fact BG will not offer a maintenance contract on any new equipment they sell unless a Hydropath unit is installed on the new installation. This endorsement by British Gas alone should validate the technology and its claims. The technology is also a green alternative to the traditional salt brine water softener in that i doesn't dump thousands of tons of salt into our water ways and environment. I had one commercial Hydrocare customer tell me recently that it didn't surprise me that the UK had developed this technology as he knew the UK is years ahead of the US on water treatment and water maintenance issues.

I think that when you are looking at what to purchase to treat your hardwater problems you need to decide what is the most important thing you want to accomplish. If you want to stop slime scale build up in the future and are not concerned about environmental issues or removing current lime scale then the traditional salt brine water softener may be for you. On the other hand if you want to remove current lime scale build up in your pipes,appliances and water heater and prevent it in the future and do not like the slimy feel of traditional salt brine softened water on your hair and skin the Hydrocare is what you should be buying.
 

NHmaster

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I am in agreement with you as to the environmental issues concerning traditional brine rinse equipment. In fact, some communities have banned disposing of it into the city sewer or dumping it on the ground. It is no doubt one of the drawbacks of the system, especially in congested rural areas. Imagine a 200 to 300 unit trailer park in say Florida with everyone dumping salt water brine on the back lawn. However, like I said, I have read a bunch of testimonials and that is good and fine, but what I would like to see is some verifiable test results and as of yet, I have seen none from any manufacturer.
 

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I am in agreement with you as to the environmental issues concerning traditional brine rinse equipment. In fact, some communities have banned disposing of it into the city sewer or dumping it on the ground. It is no doubt one of the drawbacks of the system, especially in congested rural areas. Imagine a 200 to 300 unit trailer park in say Florida with everyone dumping salt water brine on the back lawn. However, like I said, I have read a bunch of testimonials and that is good and fine, but what I would like to see is some verifiable test results and as of yet, I have seen none from any manufacturer.

Peter, the only US scientific testing done on the technology was with Onspex Labs in Cleveland last year. This test was commissioned independently by RS Jackson Resources using Rheem tankless water heaters as the test subject. Their conclusions overwhelmingly confirmed that the Hydropath technology prevented lime scale build up in the heat exchanger vs no treatment at all. I have copies of the report and would be happy to forward them to you. There has been extensive testing overseas primarily in the UK mostly for British Gas. Most of these studies can be found on the Hydropath UK website.

I would like to see more scientific studies done in the US and so would Hydrocare USA. Hydrocare USA has several times tried to get the WQA (Water Quality Association) to do testing of their products and claims and so far have been turned down every time. This refusal by the WQA is not surprising as it may not be in the best interest of their traditional water treatment dealers, primarily salt brine softener dealers, to have the Hydropath technology validated in any way. After all it has been the WQA that as a lobby group has fought any and all attempts to legislatively ban or control salt discharges into our environment by salt brine water softeners. :confused:
 

NHmaster

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Well, how about results from a one on one against traditional equipment using the same water sample. Almost anyone can do a simple test for hardness.
 

Terrydbhm

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Well, how about results from a one on one against traditional equipment using the same water sample. Almost anyone can do a simple test for hardness.

This wouldn't prove anything as far as this debate is concerned. I am not disputing that traditional water softeners prevent lime scale build up. Hydrocare is an alternative to preventing lime scale build up but it also removes current lime scale something that traditional softeners do not do. A better test would be to have 2 plumbing systems loaded up with lime scale and then running both a Hydrocare and traditional water softener to see which one will remove the current lime scale build and up. Again this would be a simple test for the WQA to perform, but so far they show no interest in validating any possible new technology that potentially could harm the business interests of their members. The WQA Magazine has printed a few negative articles about the use of Magnetics for treating hard water, but again these articles are not based upon any scientific research done by the WQA. Hydrocare is not a magnetic based technology and as far as I know they only mechanical electronic hard water conditioner that does not use magnets. Any system like Easy Water that wraps wires around a pipe is creating a magnetic field for treating the hard water.

The other issue is that nowhere do I or Hydrocare claim to remove hardness. Hydrocare only claims to condition or treat the hard water in a way that removes and prevents lime scale build up. So measuring the hardness will not be effected by the Hydorcare as it does not take any of the Ca or Mg ions out of the treated water like the traditional brine water softener.
 

Cass

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Does it stop the precipitation out of solution in the water heater when the water is heated....?
 

Terrydbhm

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Does it stop the precipitation out of solution in the water heater when the water is heated....?

The Hydropath technology changes the Ca and Mg ions in a way that they will not adhere or attache to any surface including the heat exchanger in the water heater. Over the first several months after installation the Hydropath technology will also dissolve lime scale ions already built up in the water heater and its heat exchanger causing them to let lose and pass out in the water flow. Here is the direct quote from the Hydrocare website which explains the way it works:

"The HydroCare Patented Technology - a unique and proven solution to limescale
To effectively eliminate scale buildup HydroCare applies an electric field, which creates seed crystals of scale in the water. Scale then grows on these seed crystals instead of on the interior pipe walls, forming larger particles suspended in the water. These suspended scale particles will not settle onto pipes and appliances – instead, they will flow out of the plumbing system.

The HydroCare Technology system induces an electric current (between 100 and 200 KHZ) up and down the water flow for of hundreds of yards without using electrodes. The process naturally decreases the level of the limescale in the water, which builds until the existing limescale in the pipe system is dissolved and the pipes are completely clean.

The transmission is carried out with random breaks in fading sinus waves so that the entire range of salts in the water can be treated. The electric field produces crystal nuclei in a saturated solution, as well as in unsaturated solutions. This process attracts charged ions and forms stable crystal nuclei.

The electrical attraction pull between these nuclei increases as long as more ions join and a stable crystal is formed. The size of the crystals is between .05 and 50 microns and they flow in the water as a suspension without settling on the walls of the pipe.

As a result, there is a decrease in the level of the saturated solution in the water, triggering a process in which the existing limescale in the pipe system is dissolved until the lines are completely clean.."
 
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