How to automatically fill up storage tank

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Rockwind1

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Yes, with a 60/80 switch you will need 55-58 PSI air in the tank. 60/80 will be 20 PSI higher than you have now and with the right pump can deliver very strong pressure and flow.

I refuse to look at anything on "A" and hate to even mention the name. Shop anywhere but there, as that company is destroying small businesses.

Here is what I would use.

https://sprinklersupplystore.com/co...ol-1-inch-npt-globe-valve-flow-control-155812
https://www.completeplumbingsource.com/sje-rhombus-pump-float-switch
https://store.rainbird.com/ut1-replacement-transformer-rain-bird-sst-timers.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=RainBirdPLA&utm_term={keyword}&msclkid=5256232bc38a18ccf32e42ecdab0b7a6

should i get the 60$ heavy duty 60/80 square d or the 30$ normal version?
 

Reach4

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Rockwind1

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This one
https://www.zoro.com/square-d-press...0-psi-standard-action-9013fhg9j43/i/G1721955/ is preset to 60/80 but is adjustable down.

https://www.zoro.com/square-d-press...0-psi-standard-action-9013fhg2j27/i/G1089514/
is preset to 80/100 but is adjustable down.

I think 40/6o would fill that tank up top and have enough pressure up top to run utility hose duties. The pressure head is not all that big.

i would also think so but the water does not seem to flow very good by the time it makes it on top, there is defintely not much left over after as it is dribbling into the upper tank. i do not know the actually exact pressure head, was just guessing on elevation. there is also a significant amount of friction loss. a 100+ yds of 1 1/4" pvc, numerous 90 degree corners,, then a ball valve, then it closes down to 3/4" pvc for going up the hill, which is another 100 yds, or more, then at least 3 more 90's in biggeger pipe

i noticed that the first linked pressure switch is described as a "air compressor" switch. then the second one,, is described as used for both air and water pump they have different part numbers,, i wonder if there is actually a difference,, good prices at this website it seems.
 

Reach4

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i noticed that the first linked pressure switch is described as a "air compressor" switch. then the second one,, is described as used for both air and water pump they have different part numbers,, i wonder if there is actually a difference,, good prices at this website it seems.
I missed that air compressor thing. I edited above. Good prices, especially if you get enough other stuff to get the free shipping. But their shipping rate is lower than most places.
 

Rockwind1

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I missed that air compressor thing. I edited above. Good prices, especially if you get enough other stuff to get the free shipping. But their shipping rate is lower than most places.

i am surprised they don't have one already preset at 60/80 for a water pump application, it seems so much nicer to just get one pre set

and i wonder if there is a really a difference between the only air compressor switch and the air compressor AND water pump switches
 

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i am surprised they don't have one already preset at 60/80 for a water pump application, it seems so much nicer to just get one pre set

and i wonder if there is a really a difference between the only air compressor switch and the air compressor AND water pump switches
In retrospect, it may be an error in the Zoro description.

The 9013FSG* switches seem to be for water, and the 9013FHG* for air. Please download the
Square D Pumptrol Pressure and Float Switches Catalog
Document Number 9034CT9701

In my version page 21 has "Class 9013 Type F Water Pump Switches" and page 22 explains the numbering for Class 9013 Type F Air Compressor Switches.

See what you think.

Also note the Nema 3R units are ok for outdoor.

https://www.zoro.com/square-d-press...si-standard-action-9013fsg52j25m4/i/G2098476/ is clearly for water. I think it might have 3 poles, though you only need two. It also has an on-off-auto switch. This is not to be confused with a low-pressure cutoff switch.
 
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Rockwind1

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In retrospect, it may be an error in the Zoro description.

The 9013FSG* switches seem to be for water, and the 9013FHG* for air. Please download the
Square D Pumptrol Pressure and Float Switches Catalog
Document Number 9034CT9701

In my version page 21 has "Class 9013 Type F Water Pump Switches" and page 22 explains the numbering for Class 9013 Type F Air Compressor Switches.

See what you think.

Also note the Nema 3R units are ok for outdoor.

https://www.zoro.com/square-d-press...si-standard-action-9013fsg52j25m4/i/G2098476/ is clearly for water. I think it might have 3 poles, though you only need two. It also has an on-off-auto switch. This is not to be confused with a low-pressure cutoff switch.
after watching a youtube video that appeared to be made by square d,,, it seems that my apparent 40/60 switch could simply be adjusted by turning the larger spring nut 6 times around clockwise/tightening ( 3 times=10 psi increase)

does that seem like the case to the switch experts? apparently it is all about the "J " number in the part number to keep track of where all the identical switches are pre-adjusted to at the factory

so rather than buying a new 60/80 switch,, which apparently is the same switch i currently have but with the larger spring tightened down more at the factory,,,,,,,, so why wouldn't i just tighten mine up,

i would like to say that i did experiment with this about a month ago and i cautiously tightened it up a turn, which i now realize only made a 3.3 psi difference. but i thought i noticed a slight increase in the dribble which fills my upper tank. i did not check or adjust my pressure tank air pressure though.

that would be cool if all i have to do is tighten down that bigger spring to solve my "filling the upper tank problem",,, then i just need to get a float switch working
 

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that would be cool if all i have to do is tighten down that bigger spring to solve my "filling the upper tank problem",,, then i just need to get a float switch working
At some point you will max out the pump and dead head it. That is why Cary suggested you upgrade the pump.
 

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( 3 times=10 psi increase)
3.5 turns per 10 PSI on the nut on the big spring.

I don't see a need for 60/80, so if you only get to 55/75, I expect that is plenty.
You lose less than 1 psi for every two feet of vertical distance climbed.

I think a jet pump is the not right thing for this job, but there are jet pumps set up for high head. So look at the pump characteristics before selecting a pump.

A 10 gpm 1/2 hp submersible will do the job, but you can't use just any old jet pump for providing pressure atop your hill.

For just filling your tank, your existing tank may be fine. Have you tried cleaning the jet? That's free.

index.php


If you click Performance chart on https://www.aquascience.net/products/pumps-tanks-well-components/jet-pumps-33/jet-pumps you can see similar info for some good jet pumps.
 
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Rockwind1

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[

For just filling your tank, your existing tank may be fine. Have you tried cleaning the jet? That's free.

If you click Performance chart on https://www.aquascience.net/products/pumps-tanks-well-components/jet-pumps-33/jet-pumps you can see similar info for some good jet pumps.[/QUOTE]

yes, i think i will try a couple turns at a time and see what happens,,,,, aquascience is where i found the video for the square d switchs

and cleaning the pump is defintely on the agenda when i get down there,,,, i know it is a fairly good cast steel looking pump that i think is designed to be rebuilt rather than replaced
 

Rockwind1

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At some point you will max out the pump and dead head it. That is why Cary suggested you upgrade the pump.
i will look out for that for sure. i can't get down there for a week or so due to christmas break for the kids, so was just going to collect the parts in the meantime,
 

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The FSG2 switch can only be turned up to about 55/75 before there is no spring left in the spring. A multi-stage jet pump might work, hut even the J15S can only build 83 PSI max, which is not enough for a 60/80 switch, which is what you need to get water to the upper tank.
 

Reach4

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From post #1
That jet pump sends water to the barn and horse facilities, which are down on the flat part,,,, but also sends water up to another 1250 gallon tank up on the 60 ft hill where the house is (nice view).
So an estimated 60 ft plus maybe 10 for the tank.

You could try using a gps at both tanks to measure altitude. Altitude is not measured as well as horizontal position, but with a few times, yo might get close enough. You could also carry a barometer up there and compute the altitude difference.
 

Rockwind1

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From post #1

So an estimated 60 ft plus maybe 10 for the tank.

You could try using a gps at both tanks to measure altitude. Altitude is not measured as well as horizontal position, but with a few times, yo might get close enough. You could also carry a barometer up there and compute the altitude difference.

that's a great idea! i have a fancy garmin 66i that should do the trick.
 

Rockwind1

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The FSG2 switch can only be turned up to about 55/75 before there is no spring left in the spring. A multi-stage jet pump might work, hut even the J15S can only build 83 PSI max, which is not enough for a 60/80 switch, which is what you need to get water to the upper tank.

gotcha, ok,, that video made it seem like they were all the same,,, maybe i should try adjusting to 50/70 first just to see if it helps? it's an easy tweak and may let me know how solid my jet pump is and if it can handle an 60/80
 

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I highly doubt that pump can make 70 PSI, much less 80. A model number of the pump would let you look up the max pressure the pump can build. But you will probably need a multi-stage jet or booster pump to make that much pressure.

A pressure gauge is the best way to figure elevation. While filling the upper tank simply turn off the pump. The pressure will stop at the elevation difference. The gauge will actually tell you how much pressure you need to overcome, just to get water to the top of the hill. You can take the PSI from the gauge and multiply times 2.31 to find the elevation in feet.
 

Rockwind1

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I highly doubt that pump can make 70 PSI, much less 80. A model number of the pump would let you look up the max pressure the pump can build. But you will probably need a multi-stage jet or booster pump to make that much pressure.

A pressure gauge is the best way to figure elevation. While filling the upper tank simply turn off the pump. The pressure will stop at the elevation difference. The gauge will actually tell you how much pressure you need to overcome, just to get water to the top of the hill. You can take the PSI from the gauge and multiply times 2.31 to find the elevation in feet.

but what about the air pressure in the pressure tank, just subtract? , and all the friction loss from the piping?
 

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The air in the tank won't make any difference. Just turn off the pump and open the line to the upper tank. When water stops coming out at the upper tank, the pressure on the gauge at the bottom will be the exact amount needed to make up for elevation. Multiply times 2.31 if you want to know the elevation in feet. But you really only need the pressure to figure the pump. If it takes say 45 PSI to make up for the elevation, then you add another 20-30 PSI to the pressure the pump must build, to make up for friction loss and actually get some water into the upper tank. This is about what I am guessing, which is why I keep saying you will need a 60/80 pressures switch and a pump that can do a max pressure of at least 90 PSI.
 
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