Help! With Water Softeners

[jnohl]

I am in need of serious help in determining my most cost effective solution for a water softener. Mine went out 5 weeks ago and I have recommendations from three different water suppliers, but I can't reconcile what they are recommending with what I currently have in place.

I have very hard water from a well with the following properties:
Hardness - 76 GPG
Iron - 0.2
Manganese - 0.335
Tannins - 0.2 after filtering
PH - 7.5
TDS - 1,092

I currently have an old Magic Water turbulator that appears to be a 48k capacity. I have received the following three recommendations.

#1: Ecowater EWS 5070 Single Tank - 70k Capacity - $3,000 installed
#2: Hellenbrand H-125 Single Tank - 96k Capacity - $4,500 installed
#3: US Water Synergy Twin Alternating - 70k Capacity x 2 - $2800 Shipped (No install)

So from what I can tell, I have a 1.5 cu. ft. system installed and have recommendations for 2, 3, and 4 cu. ft. systems. I realize my water is very hard, but it seems crazy to me to have to spend $3k to get soft water when I have no iron and my original system appears much smaller. I have researched and researched but it seems like everyone has a different opinion. Can anyone with more experience than me answer these questions I still have?

1. Everyone seems to recommend a large water softener to minimize the regenerations, but why? Doesn't a large water softener just have to use more salt when it does regenerate?

2. Is there any advantage to a twin system besides that you can still get water during a regeneration and that you backwash with soft water? I get that regenerating with soft water probably extends the life of the unit, but I don't mind if I can't get soft water at night when it generates.

3. I was considering a Matrixx Single Tank, 2.5 cu. ft. capacity, 88k ($1,600 Shipped). Does anyone have any experience with US Water softeners?

My plumbing is 3/4" and I have a 4 bedroom, 3 bathroom house with 2 adults and 2 kids although only two of the bathrooms are typically used.

Does anyone have any better solutions or recommendations? At this point, I can't definitely can't afford 3-4k and really don't want to spend 2k. Are there any cost effective solutions that would work for my installation?

I appreciate any input you guys could provide.
Jake

 

[Reach4]

1. For the high hardness, I think a bigger tank lets you flow the water faster and still soften. Also, for a single tank system, you have those only regenerate at around 2 am. Every night the softener decides if there is enough remaining capacity to make it through another day. If not it regenerates. So there can be an appreciable part of a day's capacity remaining. So if the softener has to regen every 2 or 3 days, that can be significant.

2. With the dual tanks, that does not apply. The softener can switch to the other tank, so does not have to worry about whether there is another day's capacity left.

Never use the nominal grains for computing. You can use about 2/3 of that number generally. Long often-told story, but it's easier if you just buy into that.

I don't know your seller, but a Fleck 9100 SXT dual tank may be a good softener valve for you . For the tank size, I would have to work the numbers.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[jnohl]

When I ruled out the Synrgy Twin Alternating due to price we did talk about this one as well...I believe this is the Fleck 9100 SXT even though they aren't calling it that.

https://www.uswatersystems.com/us-w...in-alternating-commercial-water-softener.html

 

[DIYMissus]

I bought a 9100SXT system from Apluswater online. We installed it ourselves. They use genuine Fleck valves and the rest of the system seems to be high quality.

 

[Bannerman]

Although your iron amount is lower than will usually cause visible iron staining. your well water does contain iron. Iron that is to be removed by a softener will consume the softener's capacity at a rate of 5 gpg for each 1-ppm iron in the raw water (ppm = mg/L). For your 0.2 ppm iron, that will be equivalent to 1 gpg hardness in addition to the 76 gpg hardness specified.

There are additional elements that will also consume softener capacity which are not indicated in a hardness test, a compensation factor is utilized. This is a multiplication factor that varies depending on the quantity of hardness. For your initial 77 gpg, the compensation factor will be 1.4, thereby resulting in your total compensated hardness to be 108 gpg (rounded).

For this level of hardness, a twin tank softener is recommended as the full regenerated capacity in each tank will be consistently utilized.

To clarify, because a single tank softener cannot provide soft water while regeneration is occurring, regeneration will be delayed until there will normally be little or no water use such as 2 am when most home occupants will be sleeping. Because the softener's capacity may be depleted anytime water is being used, there is a 'Reserve' allowance utilized to ensure more capacity will not be used than will be regenerated.

The reserve allowance will be 1-day softening capacity, but that reserve will not always be fully consumed before regeneration occurs. Any reserve remaining unused will be regenerated again, which means some regenerated capacity will be effectively discarded and wasted. When the hardness amount is very high such as your situation, any unused reserve can represent a substantial quantity of unused capacity and salt consumed to regenerate that capacity.

Because a twin tank softener is effectively two softeners which alternate, the tank that was previously regenerated and in standby, will immediately take over providing soft water as soon as the initial tank's capacity becomes depleted. As there will be no delay for regeneration to occur or in soft water delivery, no reserve allowance will be needed and each tank's regenerated capacity will be available for full use with no capacity (or salt) wasted.

 

[Reach4]

Hardness - 76 GPG
Iron - 0.2
Manganese - 0.335
Tannins - 0.2 after filtering

Iron, not too bad.
Manganese - 0.335 TERRIBLE.
Tannins - 0.2 after filtering I don't know for sure if that is terrible

 

[jnohl]

Hmm, I didn’t realize those numbers were bad at those levels. Would the 9100 sxt still be a viable solution? Will the softener remove the manganese as well? Or does that require pre filters?

I see aplus water has the twin 9100 sxt 80k for around 1400 shipped. I don’t know anything about that supplier but it sounds like others on the site have purchased from there.

Thanks for all the advice thus far.

 

[Reach4]

Hmm, I didn’t realize those numbers were bad at those levels. Would the 9100 sxt still be a viable solution? Will the softener remove the manganese as well? Or does that require pre filters?

I think so. I have no experience with Mn, but from what I have read, a softener should deal with it. Add about an extra 2 grains for your Fe and Mn. But you will also add a bunch for high hardness compensation. See terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/fleck-9100-sxt-programming-settings.60651/

I know even less about tannins.

 

[ditttohead]

I have very hard water from a well with the following properties:
Hardness - 76 GPG
Iron - 0.2
Manganese - 0.335
Tannins - 0.2 after filtering
PH - 7.5
TDS - 1,092

Assuming 3 people in the house, compensated hardness of est. 105 GPG, and an average water usage in a modern house of 180 gallons per day (not including irrigation, pool etc.) a 4 ft3 system would be ideal but since you have iron and manganese, more frequent regneration may not be all that bad as it keeps the resin a little cleaner. A 16x53 softener (3 ft3) system would put you at 4 days between regenerations. I would avoid the companies mentioned above. Especially the companies that sell the Chinese knock off valves. I would also recommend a regular cleaning of the resin bed through a simple drip system, or just adding some citric acid powder to the brine tank regularly.