Help plugging up old ABS drain pipe found in backyard

[BoarFart]

I live at the bottom of a big hill with numerous homes above me. On Thanksgiving we had a heavy rain event and water started coming up out of the ground where I am pointing in the pictures below. It overflowed and completely ruined my pool water and then began to pool up on the side of my house and risk flowing underneath through the vent holes. I dug down and discovered this random blown out ABS pipe that is coming from some other property behind me and continuing down the side of my yard to an unknown area. It is not sewer, it has no odor and only flows water during heavy rain events.

I have spoken with the neighbors and nobody can figure out where it's coming from. I had the line scoped and there is a blockage roughly 15' in both directions, so I can't follow it any further. I want to seal this line of completely and not take all of this water from my neighbors through my property. My issue is that this pipe measures 4" but current 4" ABS caps are too big. This pipe is much more thin, which is why the caps are not fitting snug. My house was built in the late 50's, so I would imagine this pipe is quite old. I have thought about tightening down a Fernco test cap, but I do not feel that will be a permanent fix with the head pressure created from the water. I have been to every plumbing store in town and can't seem to find a fix.

The local Fernco waterworks recommended I get two 4" flexible couplings and repair the pipe. My concern there is that due to the blockage in the line, the pressure will eventually build up with no outlet and I don't think these couplings will be able to hold given the size variance. This is why I just want to cap it and be done. I'm ready to shove some foam sealant in there, concrete, anything that can permanently plug this line. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Reach4]

I suggest that you get a digital caliper and measure what you have.

Blocking that pipe could be worse for you, so maybe make sure that what you do is sufficiently reversible.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[BoarFart]

I will run down to Harbor Freight and pick up a digital caliper. You can see the difference in size from a current 4" Fernco coupling I took a picture of.

 

[Mliu]

Before you go sealing off that pipe (especially with something crazy like concrete), I would caution you to investigate further. Even if it comes from your neighbor's property, it may be of benefit to your property. That pipe was buried for a reason, and I doubt that reason was simply to waste the money of the person who had it installed. Water will flow downhill, whether it's on the surface, below the surface, or in a pipe. Uncontained surface flow will lead to erosion and possible flooding. Uncontained subsurface flow could lead to a landslide. And you are at the bottom of the hill.

Since you've uncovered enough of the pipe to see it's lay, it shouldn't be too difficult to trace where it's coming from and where it's going. I would follow it to your property line and see if you can uncover it there. That should tell you more about its purpose. If still unsure, enlist your neighbors to help find its origin; it would also be in their best interest to know. It may even be worthwhile for all of you to chip in towards replacing that pipe with some SDR-35 or Sch-40. And putting some kind of grate to prevent debris from getting into the pipe and blocking it.

 

[wwhitney]

FWIW, if the name Carlon on there is the same as the current Carlon, they make electrical and communications duct. Since what you have is definitely not Schedule 40, it may be SDR 35 or something like that. I couldn't identify the pipe via google based on just the writing you've revealed, but if you uncover more of the labeling, it may be possible.

In any event the OD is probably about 4.2" instead of 4.5", and you'd need a coupling for "thinwall" plastic pipe, rather than Schedule 40. Once you have measured the actual OD with calipers, take a look at Fernco Pro-flex couplings, their webpage https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/shielded-couplings/proflex-couplings has a nice list of their offerings, showing the many options with the diameters on both sides. Once you figure out which one you need, Mission also makes them, and you can go with either brand.

Cheers,
Wayne

 

[Reach4]

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/20191212_091742-jpg.57667/ shows the pipe to be severely cracked, so a solution that clamps down on the pipe is probably not a good one.

 

[Mliu]

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/20191212_091742-jpg.57667/ shows the pipe to be severely cracked, so a solution that clamps down on the pipe is probably not a good one.

If the goal is to repair, rather than replace, then excavate enough of the earth in either direction untill you get to solid, uncracked pipe. Cut off the damaged sections, both upstream and downstream. Insert a new piece of pipe to fit between and join with correctly-sized flexible couplings.

 

[Reach4]

If repairing thin pipe, maybe adapt the existing pieces to schedule 40 pvc with special glue adapters. Then use the flex coupling(s) on the stronger schedule 40.

 

[Terry]

I live at the bottom of a big hill with numerous homes above me.
I want to seal this line of completely and not take all of this water from my neighbors through my property.

So you had a large flood event from this pipe in the ground, which came from the neighbors on the uphill side. And you think capping the drain will "stop" water from entering your property? Water flows downhill. Capping that pipe just means you no longer control how the water goes by your property. Be prepared for some messy outcomes from plugging off the pipe.
I used to build homes, and it's common to have to deal with up hill water and to maintain a path for it as it passes through. I would repair the pipe and fix the and or clear the line. If you need to follow the line, you can witch with coat hangers to find out where it's going.

So a scary note about the video, it was done after losing 42 pounds in six weeks after a surgery for cancer in 2010. I promise I will redo the video at some point.

This picture was taken this week of December 2019.

You really do need to repair the line, not cap it and make sure it drains the water away from your property.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Might pay to figure out exactly what that pipe is, where it comes from, who it comes from, whether it has a legal easment, who is responsible for repairs, who is responsible for damages etc...

I'm not certain I would want to be on the hook for that repair without knowing more about its potential liability.

I've hired people to locate unknown pipe in the ground as Terry describes above.. my brother can do it too. But then I also had a guy from a water department do it and was completely wrong.

 

[BoarFart]

Wow, thank you everyone for all the help. Terry, I would not have known that was you in the video!

Here is where I am at. The pipe is appx. 4" inside diameter and .16" thick. I went to my local Fernco warehouse and they supplied me with two 4" couplings and a small length of pipe to replace the broken section. The inside diameter of the Fernco coupling is appx. 4.5" wide, so I am going to have to crank that thing down about 1/2".

Should I be concerned with the thickness of the pipe and cranking on that clamp? Reach 4 mentioned an adapter to schedule 40. Are you talking about something like this? https://www.homedepot.com/p/NDS-4-i...VmB6tBh0gggjbEAQYASABEgJwyfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Considering the camera hit a blockage in both directions, the water flow is most likely very slow in that line if it does indeed make it passed the blockage. Without snaking the line to try and clear it up, do you think the couplings will be able to handle the head pressure created? I feel as though these couplings are fine for water that is passing through, but not for much build up of pressure.

I live in an unincorporated area, so the water department said it's on me and there are no records of where this would come from. The neighbor behind me has no idea either, as all of his drains lead in a different direction. This is bad timing with me opening my own business, so I am trying to avoid a lot of cost in snaking this line/replacing it.

 

[Reach4]

Re-check that thickness to see if it is 0.120 rather than 0.160. Use the tip of the caliper.That is what we would expect for SDR-35 pipe. SDR-26 would be 0.162 thick. http://www.jmeagle.com/sites/default/files/GravitySewer_one-page-slick_v1.pdf


Note that the caliper has a rod that comes down. That is good for measuring the depth of holes up to the 6 inches. It does not apply to this, but I thought I would mention it.

If you glue pvc to abs, it take special glue. Schedule 40 ABS would work too.

 

[wwhitney]

Simplest is to use the calipers to measure the outer diameter of the pipe.

When measuring the wall thickness, you need to engage a longer length of the calipers jaws, because with a short length engaged, it is easy to get the calipers slightly cocked, and the reading will be higher than reality.

When you have OD of the two pipes you want to connect, you can find a rubber coupling that will fit each end more tightly. I typically use shielded couplings, I'm unclear if there is an advantage to unshielded couplings in this application.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

When measuring the wall thickness, you need to engage a longer length of the calipers jaws, because with a short length engaged, it is easy to get the calipers slightly cocked, and the reading will be higher than reality.

I was thinking the other way so that the radius on the ID would not affect the reading.

I would want to avoid too much compression on a thinner pipe.

 

[wwhitney]

I was thinking the other way so that the radius on the ID would not affect the reading.

My calipers have a bevel on one blade for that reason, I thought that was standard. And I don't see how engaging a shorter length of the blades would help with that.

An alternative way to avoid cocking the calipers when engaging a short length of the blades would be simply to hold the calipers by squeezing on the ends of the blades.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

My calipers have a bevel on one blade for that reason, I thought that was standard. And I don't see how engaging a shorter length of the blades would help with that.

That bevel is about 3/8 inch long on mine. I have that bevel on both blades.

I agree that you want to avoid cocking, and going for the minimum measurement should give you the best un-cocked reading.

 

[wwhitney]

That bevel is about 3/8 inch long on mine. I have that bevel on both blades.

You're right, mine too, my memory was off. So I retract my suggestion to use longer than the beveled region.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Terry]

What is the OD of the pipe? That's the sizing you need for the couplings.
If it's 4-1/8" OD, that's a copper size.
If it's 4-7/16" that would be a plastic size.
They make couplings that have both sizes to match up different pipes.

 

[BoarFart]

In cutting passed the broken bits I acquired a fully in tact piece for ease of measurement. The exterior measurement is appx 4.25" and the thickness is appx .13". I installed a pressure nozzle on my garden hose and shoved it down the outlet side until I hit the blockage. I let it sit there for a while to see if any water would eventually spill out and none did. This tells me that although there is a blockage, water is still making it passed it.

Since I already have the parts I decided to go ahead and use the 4" Fernco couplings with the spare pipe. I am going to leave the hole uncovered until the next rain and cross my fingers. You can see the size difference of the coupling and pipe in one of the pictures I attached. It seems like it snugged up pretty tight without an abundance of torque on the clamp. It looks like the next rain is 12/23, so I hope to report back with success.

Thanks again for the help everyone, beers on me if you find yourself in San Diego.

 

[Mliu]

I would want to avoid too much compression on a thinner pipe.

Spheres and cylinders are extremely strong in compression. That is why submarines can withstand over 700 psi without imploding.

Put an undamaged raw egg in the palm of your hand and wrap your fingers around it evenly. Squeeze it with all your might, you won't be able to crush the egg.