Tuttles Revenge
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I now know who I can sell this toilet to.
Funny plumbing fail - advice on offset flange
- Thread starter Bens
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wwhitney
In the Trades
My thoughts:
Don't use the pressure 45s, they don't have the required radius, you need DWV fittings.
On the vent takeoff, you have it vertical, have you confirmed that if you stick a street 45 in the wye branch inlet pointed towards your vent stub down you'll reach there low enough to fit in a 45 elbow? If you need just a little more height, you could use a street reducing wye in the 3" wye. You could also rotate the wye, but that will complicate the in plan vent layout considerably. You may need to use 2 more Ferncos to connect up the vent.
On the main question, I suggest sticking with the pic 1 layout, you almost got it. The closet flange center point and the 3" stack center line defines a plane, and I trust you are putting the wye branch and the 45 side bend on the closet flange within that plane? Then it's a 2D problem to get everything lined up, you can do it.
I suggest the following approach: dry fit everything with nothing solvent welded and the closet flange not screwed down. (Well, the 3" wye on the stack should have its stub ends solvent welded, and the Ferncos should be snug enough to hold the wye in the correct final position). For the dry fit, don't try to insert the pipe all the way into the hub at each connection; just insert it enough to ensure it is coaxial and not cocked. So you're going to be cutting pipe pieces that are temporary just for layout aids.
Once you have it all dry fit, then measure the hub to hub distance between every pair of fittings. Then take a reference length of pipe, say exactly 12", and glue it up with hubbed fittings on each end. Make sure you get the pipe fully seated in the hub, to the extent you are typically going to be able to (which should be fully seated). Then measure the hub to hub length of your test piece.
The difference tells you your joint takeup on two joints. You can add that to the hub to hub distance in your dry fit to get your final pipe length. Then start gluing up at the 3" wye going upward. If you're worried that you're off at any point, you can reassemble your dry fit to confirm (when the last piece glued on is a fitting).
Getting the rotation correct on the first (closest to stack) 45 will be a bit tricky, but if your stack is plumb, you can just ensure the top hub is level (e.g. stick a piece of pipe temporarily in the hub, rotate it so the pipe is plumb, and mark the hub rotation for glue up). Another trick is if the fittings have casting lines on the hubs, and lining up the casting lines is the goal, then you can use the pipe marking as a straight line, i.e. line up the text with the casting line on each joint.
Gluing up the last joint will be tricky, as well. If access from above allows you to glue the closet flange into the coupling, that would work but is a little fraught. I think the straight section between the coupling and the highest 45 would be easier. You can temporarily loosen the Ferncos so that you can tilt the whole assembly below that point out in order to make up the joint(s).
Cheers, Wayne
Don't use the pressure 45s, they don't have the required radius, you need DWV fittings.
On the vent takeoff, you have it vertical, have you confirmed that if you stick a street 45 in the wye branch inlet pointed towards your vent stub down you'll reach there low enough to fit in a 45 elbow? If you need just a little more height, you could use a street reducing wye in the 3" wye. You could also rotate the wye, but that will complicate the in plan vent layout considerably. You may need to use 2 more Ferncos to connect up the vent.
On the main question, I suggest sticking with the pic 1 layout, you almost got it. The closet flange center point and the 3" stack center line defines a plane, and I trust you are putting the wye branch and the 45 side bend on the closet flange within that plane? Then it's a 2D problem to get everything lined up, you can do it.
I suggest the following approach: dry fit everything with nothing solvent welded and the closet flange not screwed down. (Well, the 3" wye on the stack should have its stub ends solvent welded, and the Ferncos should be snug enough to hold the wye in the correct final position). For the dry fit, don't try to insert the pipe all the way into the hub at each connection; just insert it enough to ensure it is coaxial and not cocked. So you're going to be cutting pipe pieces that are temporary just for layout aids.
Once you have it all dry fit, then measure the hub to hub distance between every pair of fittings. Then take a reference length of pipe, say exactly 12", and glue it up with hubbed fittings on each end. Make sure you get the pipe fully seated in the hub, to the extent you are typically going to be able to (which should be fully seated). Then measure the hub to hub length of your test piece.
The difference tells you your joint takeup on two joints. You can add that to the hub to hub distance in your dry fit to get your final pipe length. Then start gluing up at the 3" wye going upward. If you're worried that you're off at any point, you can reassemble your dry fit to confirm (when the last piece glued on is a fitting).
Getting the rotation correct on the first (closest to stack) 45 will be a bit tricky, but if your stack is plumb, you can just ensure the top hub is level (e.g. stick a piece of pipe temporarily in the hub, rotate it so the pipe is plumb, and mark the hub rotation for glue up). Another trick is if the fittings have casting lines on the hubs, and lining up the casting lines is the goal, then you can use the pipe marking as a straight line, i.e. line up the text with the casting line on each joint.
Gluing up the last joint will be tricky, as well. If access from above allows you to glue the closet flange into the coupling, that would work but is a little fraught. I think the straight section between the coupling and the highest 45 would be easier. You can temporarily loosen the Ferncos so that you can tilt the whole assembly below that point out in order to make up the joint(s).
Cheers, Wayne
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wwhitney
In the Trades
P.S. Another option for the last joint would be on the vertical between the two 45s. Then you'd screw down the closet flange in the final location, and the final operation would start with the rest of the PVC assembly detached from the stack, with the Ferncos slid back. You'd glue up the joint by sliding the lower assembly up, then rotating it so that the 3" wye ends up aligned with the stack.
Cheers, Wayne
Cheers, Wayne
I would consider making a pipe or two with tapered ends that will fit fully into the socket for size and angle testing. A belt sander would be the tool of choice, but other things could be used with enough patience.
Use as many flex couplings as practical. Do not tighten until things are going to fit. That gives more degrees of freedom. Lubricating under the rubber with liquid dish soap is good.
The wye under the cast iron can be rotated to add another degree of freedom.
I don't think I have seen a pressure-only 3-inch 45.
Use as many flex couplings as practical. Do not tighten until things are going to fit. That gives more degrees of freedom. Lubricating under the rubber with liquid dish soap is good.
The wye under the cast iron can be rotated to add another degree of freedom.
I don't think I have seen a pressure-only 3-inch 45.
It's amazing that two weeks ago I wouldn't have found this very funny. Now it's freaking hilarious.
Oh, and the toilet is level - it's a floor problem. I ain't coming out for a carpentry problem.
Yes! These are the types of tips I'm looking for. I kept avoiding large scale dry fitting because I know the pipes don't sit all of the way down the hub without glue and figured it would be too variable. I don't know why it didn't occur to me that you just undercut and measure from hub to hub when you're done. Bravo.
You also gave me the idea that I wouldn't have had to scrap try #2 if I would have over cut the bottom stub on my stack replacement and aimed a little lower on the straight 45 run to the stack. This would have let me whittle away my bottom length on the stack and match up to the run as the last adjustment. Then I could have measured and cut the top stub to the correct length.
Agree on the 2d plane, that was all lined up perfectly using lengths of pipe and rulers!
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Maybe something like this? Rotate at H and J to get aim right.
Maybe add coupling at C if adjustment there would help.
If you need a little less than 45 degrees at D, use two 22.5s to get the angle you need. If more than 45 is needed, a 45 in series with a 22.5 could get you that.
Maybe add coupling at C if adjustment there would help.
If you need a little less than 45 degrees at D, use two 22.5s to get the angle you need. If more than 45 is needed, a 45 in series with a 22.5 could get you that.
Jeff H Young
In the Trades
yep reach 4 got better idea no need for a 90 .
I wonder if the ConnecTite fittings would be worthwhile for you: http://www.connectite.com/ Big premium over glued.
You can rotate or release. I have never used them.
You can rotate or release. I have never used them.
Jeff H Young
In the Trades
I cant see any difficulty it seems everything is worked out.
wwhitney
In the Trades
Drain looks great!
But on the vent, you can't go horizontal (or combine vents) until 6" above the flood rim level of the fixture(s) being vented. So you need to use two 45s instead of two 90s. 45 degrees off plumb is still considered vertical.
Cheers, Wayne
Tuttles Revenge
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You could "repair" that old horizontal vent into perpetuity... but once you change it to new plumbing, you must meet current code.
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