Fleck 9100 SXT Programming/Settings

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, Questions and Answers' started by rss1978, Mar 22, 2015.

  1. rss1978

    rss1978 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Location:
    Texas
    I am finally installing my new Fleck 9100 SXT!!! Thanks to the help of many on these forums, I am getting it done...slowly! Final assistance I need is on programming the darn thing. A little about the system and water:

    Each tank = 2 cu. ft (64K)
    BLFC - 0.5 gpm
    DLFC - has nothing listed...I assume because it has something to do with being dual tank?
    Injector - 2 gpm I think this is my drain flow? It is on inside sticker and on my drain outlet.

    Water well pressure - 40/60
    Supply pipe - 3/4" PEX
    Total water hardness - 57 grains
    No iron

    I would like to use a salt efficiency setting of 8lbs...which I believe provides about 48K grains cap/2 cu ft tank.

    Here is what I am planning to set the program based on the guide that I have. I have adjusted a few of the settings per my system. Please correct me if any are wrong.

    Df - GAL
    VT - St1b
    CT - Fl Is this setting meaning it will regenerate immediately when SF or RC is met? Is this what I need?
    NT - 2
    TS - U2
    C - 48 Not sure if this is right? 64 K is tank size. I think I put 48 because that is the 8lbs salt setting?
    H - 60 I am putting 3 extra grains...do I need to?
    RS - SF Should I go SF or RC? What would my RC setting need to be...150?
    SF - 5
    DO - 7
    BW - 10
    BD - 60
    RR - 10
    BF - 6 I put 6 because I think 6min@0.5 gpm BLFC = 3 gallons of water for my 8lb salt setting. Correct?
    Dl - *
    CD - *
    FM - t0.7
    K - *

    I appreciate any advice you can give me on this. Being new to all of this, it has been quite overwhelming. But thanks to the internet and much advice, it has been much more manageable. Thanks to all who have helped!
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Edit: slipped a cog. Ignore what I wrote and see posts below.
    You said "Each tank = 2 cu. ft (64K)". That is not right. 2 cuft would be "128 K".

    If Each tank = 2 cu. ft, typically 12 x 52 inches each, then this:

    • For 8 pounds/cuft, you need BF=8*2/0.5/3=10.67 minutes. (round to BF=11). C=96.0*1000.
    • Alternatively, for 6 pounds/cuft, you need BF=6*2/0.5/3=8 minutes. C=80.0*1000.

    If 1 cuft of resin in each tank, typically 9 x 48 inches each, (" 64K" each tank)
    • For 8 pounds/cuft, you need BF=8*1/0.5/3=5.33 (round which way?) and C=48.0*1000.
    • For 6 pounds/cuft, you need BF=6*1/0.5/3=4 minutes.(no rounding needed) C=40.0*1000.


    H=57 (I would not add a margin unless a Hach 5-B test says you have remaining hardness.

    SF=0 I would think because you do immediate regen.

    I would go maybe DO=21, which might have an effect if you go on vacation.

    I have not read on programming dual tank units, but this is my expectation of how the numbers would work.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2015
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  4. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Df - GAL
    VT - St1b
    CT - Fl Is this setting meaning it will regenerate immediately when SF or RC is met? Is this what I need? FI is correct, a twin alternator would not be programmed with a reserve.
    NT - 2
    TS - U2 Not critical, information only but it should be set to the tank that the arrow is pointing to in the right side of the valve under the cover.
    C - 48 Not sure if this is right? 64 K is tank size. I think I put 48 because that is the 8lbs salt setting? Correct, you program the capacity to a single tank
    H - 60 I am putting 3 extra grains...do I need to? Actually I believe it is a little higher, I don't have the compensated hardness chart memorized, but I would add a couple more grains.
    RS - SF Should I go SF or RC? What would my RC setting need to be...150? RC
    RC - 0
    DO - 21
    BW - 10
    BD - 60
    RR - 10
    BF - 6 I put 6 because I think 6min@0.5 gpm BLFC = 3 gallons of water for my 8lb salt setting. Correct? 11 minutes... 11 minutes x .5 = 5.5 gallons, 5.5 x 3 lbs per gallon = 16.5 pounds of salt (8 per ft3)
    Dl - *
    CD - *
    FM - t0.7 confirm the meter is the turbine style, not the paddle wheel type. The turbine is more common and has an easily removed grey meter cable, the paddle wheels meter cable is secured with a screw.
    K - *
     
  5. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 In the Trades

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    Nov 24, 2010
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    Owner of SWS Systems WWW.SWSSYSTEMS.COM
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    The compensated hardness would be hardness times 1.3. In you case is 57*1.3=74.1
    Reach4 each CF is 32K. His is 2 CF per tank so it's 64K per tank with a total of 128K With only regening one tank at a time, it would be set up using 2 CF and not the total.
     
  6. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Thanks for that, here is my old chart, I should have this remembered by now, but why remember something that I have on a chart in my book? :)
    Compensated Water Hardness
    Multiply by
    1 - 20 gpg
    1.1

    21 - 40 gpg
    1.2

    41 - 70 gpg
    1.3

    71 - 100 gpg
    1.4

    100+ gpg
    1.5
     
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Just thinking....

    That compensated (for higher hardness) table is interesting. That is clearly a simplification. For example, with the table, 20 would be compensated to 22 and 21 would be compensated to 25.2. I am thinking that a formula might give a more gradual compensation. As an experiment, I made a table where my choice of what hardness to associate with each factor was fairly arbitrary -- about 3/4 of the way through the range.
    hardness factor
    0.00 1.00
    15.00 1.10
    35.00 1.20
    62.50 1.30
    92.50 1.40
    122.00 1.50
    I curve fitted the data 2 ways that each have 3 coefficients: single exponential, and 2nd order polynomial. The resulting curves pass pretty closely through the points I entered.

    With my calculations, 57 grains gets compensated to 73.2531651969 with one way, and 73.159805463 (ridiculous number of digits shown) -- which both come out to 73 after rounding. 57*1.3 comes out to 74.1. So the simpler table method is in close agreement. And had I chosen to use the middle of the hardness ranges to compute coefficients, I would have had a higher result.

    I am not saying my numbers are right, but I do think some formula would be better than a table. Given a spreadsheet, the calculation is simple once a formula is entered.

    I am thinking a similar method could be useful in relating salt pounds/cuft vs grains/cuft. An advantage is where the BLFC does not permit exactly 6 or 8 or 10 pounds/cuft, the C could be better calculated to an intermediate number if, for example, you were using 6.4 pounds/cuft.

    I understand there is looseness in the numbers. I understand that the performance should be tested after the system is used with the real water. But I think that a spreadsheet with formulas could offer some advantage.

    I am pretty shocked that there is such compensation recommended for even fairly mild hardness. Is it being too pessimistic maybe? Is this table pretty much accepted practice?
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2015
  8. rss1978

    rss1978 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Location:
    Texas
    Thank you all for the replies. I had not thought much about compensated hardness. One question I have about compensated hardness....my understanding is that compensated hardness is actual hardness + Iron + Manganese. I have no iron. I am not sure about Manganese (wasn't tested), but my TDS number is high at 2114 mg/L and my Sodium is 399.7 mg/L. Being that there is no iron for sure, should I still use the 57 grains x 1.3 to figure compensated hardness at 74? That is just a large increase and I want to make sure it is needed because I will lose a day or so between regenerations due to the 1/3 of an increase.

    Also...figuring the numbers at 74 grains, I think I will regenerate at 8lbs/cu ft salt rate every 2.7 days (4 persons x 60 gal/day x 74 gpg = 17,760 grains. 48,000/17,760 = 2.7). At 30 days per month/ 2.7 = 11.11 cycles x 16.5 lbs per regen = 182 lbs salt/month or 4.5 bags/month.

    6lbs/cu ft would regenerate every 2.25 days (4 persons x 60 gal/day x 74 gpg = 17,760 grains. 40,000/17,760 = 2.25). At 30 days per month/ 2.25 = 13.33 cycles x 12 lbs per regen = 160 lbs salt/month or 4 bags/month. With just a 1/2 day difference, I wonder if a 6 lb setting would be better?

    What would you go with...a 6lbs or 8lbs setting?

    If I go with 6lbs, I think the only settings I would change would be below....correct?
    C = 40
    BF = 8 8mins x .5 gpm = 4 gallons x 3lbs/gal = 12 lbs salt

    I hope all of this makes sense. If my figures are incorrect, please let me know.
     
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    More than one kind of compensation it appears.

    I would go 6 -- less salt per month. Yes regarding changing just the C and BF. You would be taking good advantage of your dual tanks because you don't have to leave a reserve. Can you imagine having to leave a day of reserve?

    Seems to me that you should have your Hach 5-B handy. You could start edging the H down until you can see a touch of hardness right before the regen. Then raise the H back up.

    You will have a fair amount of salt in the treated water. You could try drinking unsoftened water if you like the taste, or you could consider RO if you want to remove the salt for drinking. If you get an RO, feed it with softened water.
     
  10. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Actually you wont hase salt in the drinking water, If you are considering NACl as salt. The softener will only raise the sodium level. At 57 grains, it is not very likely you would taste the sodium, but you may. Regardless, you should use an RO for drinking water in your application. I would recommend a permeate pump at minimum. at 2000+ tds, your compensated pressure would be 20 PSI less than you actual pressure, with a 40 psi low side of the pump, that would mean you have 20 PSI on the membrane. A booster would also be a good idea in order to increase system performance. An auto purge would also be a good idea.
     
  11. rss1978

    rss1978 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Location:
    Texas
    It is nice when a plan starts coming together. Installation and setup went as planned witTh only a few questions popping up. I will write all settings I used...that came up as I scrolled through. Most are as we discussed above, but a few were slightly different. If something is wrong, please let me know. I will note the ones I have questions with.
    Df - Gal
    VT - dF1b ***Everything said to use St1b, but this is not an option. dF1b was selected and was closest to St1b. I left it as that. Please advise if I need something else.
    CT - Fl
    NT - ---2
    TS - U2
    C - 48
    H - 74
    RS - rc
    RC - 0
    DO - 21
    RT - 2:00 ***Nobody mentioned the RT. I left at 2:00 am because I didn't think it mattered since I put Fl.
    BW - 10
    BD - 60
    RR - 10
    BF - 11
    FM - t0.7

    I just had the questions about the ones I marked. Otherwise...success! Hach test showed <1 grain of hardness after setup! My pipes and fixtures have never had that soft of water go through them!!!! Thanks for all of your help!
     
  12. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    DF1B and ST1b are the same, just depends on how old the valve is. The programming changes over the years

    RT does not matter unless the valve goes into the DO.
     
  13. rss1978

    rss1978 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Location:
    Texas
    A couple of more questions have come to mind. I want to have a good understanding of all of this.

    1. By regenerating immediately and selecting no reserve, will the regeneration still be using softened water from the other tank during renegeration vs hard water coming in?

    2. I added about 6 gallons of water to the brine tank before adding 120 lbs of salt. This brought to water level to just about 1" above the salt grid in brine tank like the directions I had said to do. Is this all I have to do to have it prepared for its first regeneration?

    Thanks in advance for the help!
     
  14. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Immediate regeneration uses soft water, the only drawback I you may lose some available water flow to the house during the backwash and fast rinse cycles, but this is rarely noticed.

    6 gallons is fine, the system will take care of everything else. I would recommend regenerating both tanks a couple times to clear out all the "stuff" that gets in there during manufacturing. Regeneration will do a fairly good cleaning od the resin. You may also want to add a small amount of bleach to the brine tank in order to sanitize everything. This should be done rarely, but primarily during start up.
     
  15. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    IL
    Maybe one tablespoon per cubic ft of resin?
     
  16. rss1978

    rss1978 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Location:
    Texas
    System ran out of soft water for the first time and did an immediate regeneration. Seemed to go as it is supposed to go. One thing I noticed is that the "water meter" only went down about 15 gallons. My wife was washing clothes, so I think a lot of that was from the washer and a little sink use. I also noticed that as it was regenerating, the water flow (water drop) was not on. Does this all sound correct? I know that it is supposed to regenerate with soft water, but it didn't show to be using any based on the display.

    Final brink tank refill put about 15" of water (measured from floor). This was about 3 or 4 more inches than my initial 6 gallons I added. Does this sound about right for my 8lb refill as we discussed above?

    The system did switch over to other tank and water was still <0 gpg by Hach 5b.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
  17. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
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    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Soft water regeneration water is not calculated by the meter. Since the regenerant water is not hard, it does not take away any capacity... long story short, the meter only measures the water exiting the meter, since the regnerant water does not leave through the meter it is not counted, nor should it be.

    I may have missed it but... what is your brine tank size?
     
  18. rss1978

    rss1978 New Member

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    Location:
    Texas
    Makes sense on metered water.

    Brine tank is 18x40. It has a grid in bottom that is roughly 6" or so off bottom. When I added my initial 6 or 7 gallons, it filled to about one inch above grid as directions wanted. Added salt from there. Not real sure how much salt brought water up, but I would guess a few inches. I would guess refill brought level up 4 or 5 inches from that point.
     
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