Fighting a leak at lavatory mack washer, plastic sleeve in sink outlet causing problems?

[TunaBreath]

Hey guys, fighting a leak at a lav sink outlet at the mack washer from installing a new Moen faucet and pop up drain w/ overflow (sink has overflow). I attached some photos but I can not stop a leak at the mack washer. This a custom lav top from when the house was built in 2005 and it had a plastic sleeve through the drain outlet, some of which I had to cut away when installing the new popup as the popup would not sit flush or tight to the sink outlet without cutting some away (I did the same thing on another sink in the house years ago).

The only thing I can think of is that water is going into the sink overflow inlet on the popup assembly and making its way BEHIND the plastic sleeve and then traveling down and out of there. See the attached photos.

I have tried plumbers putty on the mack washer, tried heavy tightening, not so heavy tightening thinking it was being distorted but no luck. What are my options? Right now I am thinking of attempting to cut and peel out all of that plastic sleeve.

Trying to attach photos but even 230KB is too big?

Link for photos:

 

[WorthFlorida]

What usually is the problem is the drain pipe (tail piece) is not threaded all the way into drain flange. This causes the overflow drain holes of the tail piece to be too low and below the bottom part of the bowl. Before you set the large nut to tighten things down, look at the overflow hole on the tail piece. I've seen where the nut just covers the overflow holes and water will weep past the threads.

Do use stainless plumbers putty under the flange.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[TunaBreath]

What usually is the problem is the drain pipe (tail piece) is not threaded all the way into drain flange. This causes the overflow drain holes of the tail piece to be too low and below the bottom part of the bowl. Before you set the large nut to tighten things down, look at the overflow hole on the tail piece. I've seen where the nut just covers the overflow holes and water will weep past the threads.

Do use stainless plumbers putty under the flange.

The Moen drain assemblies are not a two piece so the drain flange does not thread into the tailpiece, it's all one piece. Also, yes I used stain free putty. Any other ideas?

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Those are the biggest pain the ass.. to avoid call backs on pop ups I always silicone the threads under that gasket and the point where it touches the sink.

 

[TunaBreath]

Those are the biggest pain the ass.. to avoid call backs on pop ups I always silicone the threads under that gasket and the point where it touches the sink.

So you've encountered these plastic sleeves before in the sink outlet? I may try filling that gouged in area of the plastic sleeve with silicone, otherwise I may try a non overflow pop-up.

 

[wwhitney]

So the hole at the bottom of the sink is not drilled into a casting, but the casting was made against a plastic sleeve? And the sink has no overflow?

You could try plugging the bottom hole (e.g. with an expandable rubber stopper from below), and then check for any leaks around that plastic sleeve as you suspect. If it leaks, then certainly that should be fixed.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

I think I misinterpreted your original post.

All bathroom sinks seals are formed from the gasket on the bottom. The strainer / putty seal on top keeps water in the bowl when the stopper is down/closed. An overflow if present circumnavigates the stopper and flows through a tube to an opening in the pop up assembly.

If there is no overflow on this sink.. I would epoxy that crack/void rather than silicone, which has a hard time bonding to any surface thats wet. Epoxy putty will bond to wet surfaces and can be smoothed out wet while curing.

 

[TunaBreath]

I think I misinterpreted your original post.

All bathroom sinks seals are formed from the gasket on the bottom. The strainer / putty seal on top keeps water in the bowl when the stopper is down/closed. An overflow if present circumnavigates the stopper and flows through a tube to an opening in the pop up assembly.

If there is no overflow on this sink.. I would epoxy that crack/void rather than silicone, which has a hard time bonding to any surface thats wet. Epoxy putty will bond to wet surfaces and can be smoothed out wet while curing.

There is an overflow. That plastic sleeve is almost like a "channel" for the water that enters the overflow at the top of the sink.

Also, if there was no putty seal, water would enter under the popup flange, flow into the area of the sink casting surrounding the popup drain tube, and either eventually rise high enough to enter the overflow channel on the popup drain tube, or exit out of the mack washer if it could.

 

[TunaBreath]

So the hole at the bottom of the sink is not drilled into a casting, but the casting was made against a plastic sleeve? And the sink has no overflow?

You could try plugging the bottom hole (e.g. with an expandable rubber stopper from below), and then check for any leaks around that plastic sleeve as you suspect. If it leaks, then certainly that should be fixed.

Cheers, Wayne

The sink does have an overflow hole below the flood rim. This plastic sleeve seems like it is a means to get a smooth channel for water that comes from the overflow. If you look in the photo there is a sort of "channel" in that sleeve.

 

[wwhitney]

The sink does have an overflow hole below the flood rim.

Then your pop up drain needs to accommodate an overflow.

I'm a bit unclear on the geometry of this "gouge". If the bottom circular hole in the sink were closed off, would there be a leakage path for water out of the bowl? If so, you need to fix that or get a non-defective sink. If not, then the pop-up drain assembly should seal to the bottom of the bowl without leaking.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[TunaBreath]

Then your pop up drain needs to accommodate an overflow.

I'm a bit unclear on the geometry of this "gouge". If the bottom circular hole in the sink were closed off, would there be a leakage path for water out of the bowl? If so, you need to fix that or get a non-defective sink. If not, then the pop-up drain assembly should seal to the bottom of the bowl without leaking.

Cheers, Wayne

The pop up drain is made for an overflow.

My speculation is water is flowing into the drain and then sort of "splashing"/running into the overflow cutout on the popup assembly. From there the water is then entering that gouged/peeled away area of the plastic sleeve. From there it now flows inbetween the plastic sleeve and sink casting and then out of the area where there is a void between the plastic sleeve and sink casting, which the mack washer would not seal.

I provided a link for photos in the original post in case you havent seen those.

 

[wwhitney]

Yes, I looked at your photos, but couldn't quite see/visualize the details you are describing. An extreme close up would help, but that's hard to do.

From your hypothesis, a corollary is that water going into the sink overflow could leak outside of the bowl before getting to the overflow holes in the pop-up drain. If that's the case, that needs to be fixed.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[John Gayewski]

I have no idea what you're talking about with a plastic sleeve, but I use dope on the bottom washers and the threads.

 

[TunaBreath]

Well, I think I got it taken care of with a hefty amount of dope on the mack washer. But this got me thinking in regards to popup assemblies with overflows...there is always stagnant water sitting in the overflow cavity around the popup assembly because water enters the overflow openings on the drain assembly as it exits the sink (reverse of how the overflow is supposed to work). This stagnant water can lead to a sewage type smell.

 

[Terry]

For marble and composite sinks, stainless putty or Silicone
I sometimes use putty or pipe dope on the threads where the bottom washer fits over. Otherwise water can run down the threads.

 

[TunaBreath]

For marble and composite sinks, stainless putty or Silicone
I sometimes use putty or pipe dope on the threads where the bottom washer fits over. Otherwise water can run down the threads.

Thanks Terry but this drain assembly is one piece, not two separate like in your photo.

And I thought I had it sealed, nope, it's weeping. I'm going to rip this plastic sleeve out I suppose.

 

[TunaBreath]

Wanted to update everyone on this. I rippedout that plastic sleeve (photo attached). I then discovered the sink casting was out of round. I ground it smooth and round with a stone on a rotary tool. Shining a flash light through the drain helped identify the areas that needed ground. I was also running out of threads on the pop-up drain tube. I added a slip joint nut as a washer and finally got it to seal. Shining a flash light through the drain helped identify the areas causing the problem.

 

[Angel1]

Wanted to update everyone on this. I rippedout that plastic sleeve (photo attached). I then discovered the sink casting was out of round. I ground it smooth and round with a stone on a rotary tool. Shining a flash light through the drain helped identify the areas that needed ground. I was also running out of threads on the pop-up drain tube. I added a slip joint nut as a washer and finally got it to seal. Shining a flash light through the drain helped identify the areas causing the problem.

How did you fix your problem we had the same sleeve and tore it out but it is not gouged or out around but it leaks