Everything seems to work, but no water :( Amateur needs help

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by Trask99, Oct 25, 2020.

  1. Trask99

    Trask99 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2020
    Location:
    PNW
    The Situation: I’ve lived at this property for two years and have never had any problems with my well system including pressure,water quality etc. Then a few days ago the water stopped running. I checked the pump house everything seemed to be normal and none of the circuits had tripped on the panel inside. I then checked my panel in the house and found that the switch controlling the pump house had tripped. I reset it and had water again. Later that day I thought I had heard an electrical sound and the lights flash, then no water. I reset the switch in hoping it would fix it again, but no water.


    What I have tried: I have turn off and then on again all the circuits on the panel in the pump house, though none have tripped. I have done the same to the switch that controls the electricity to the pump house on the main panel. Everything seems to be working.


    -I visually inspected all the components in the pump house. I have attached pictures. The pressure switch is clean with no signs of corrosion or overheating. The pressure gauge reads 30 psi and the kick on pressure is 40. I removed the panel on the pump control box and everything appears to be clean with no signs of corrosion or fire.


    -I took an amp meter and checked to make sure that the pressure switch and control box we’re both getting power and everything is. All the components inside the pump control box seem to be getting 120 V. I did not remove the panel from the coyote pump protector or the fuse panel in the pump house.


    -Everything seems to be powered up and ready to go. But the pressure remains 10 psi too low and there is no water anywhere. I don’t know if there is some sort of reset I need to hit that I’m not thinking of or what is going on


    Suggested Fix: My local well company is well regarded, but booked several months out for repairs. After speaking to one of the guys there he told me that he thinks I need to start replacing parts of the pump control box. He said that even though all the components are getting power it is possible because it is an older unit that parts are broken even though they are getting power. Don’t really understand why this would be the case but that is his opinion and all I have to go on right now.


    Any recommendations would be very helpful. Also I’m happy to get more info if it’ll help other people help me. Going on for days without water is not fun
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Pawpaw

    Pawpaw New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2020
    Location:
    Ohio
    Welcome,

    I'm no expert in these matters (I actually joined quite recently to talk about my own pump issues). I noticed the little plate at the bottom of the control box says "Push to reset" (or perhaps "Push to preset"?). Do you know what that refers to?
     
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  4. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Measure the voltage from line 1 to line 2 on the control box terminals. Expect about 240 volts.

    Post better picture of the black and silver control box label. Your quick thing to try is to replace the control box with a new appropriate box.


    The start capacitor is the most likely failure.

    If your water pressure gauge reads 10 psi low, but you have no water, you need a new gauge. The actual water pressure is probably zero.

    If the air pressure for the pressure tank precharge reads 10 psi low below what you think it should read, you will add air. But that is not the main malfunction.

    Get a clamp-around ammeter in case there is more troubleshooting to do. Your search term can be multimeter clamp.

    Do you feel any urgency?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
  5. Trask99

    Trask99 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2020
    Location:
    PNW
    yes at the bottom of the box are two red buttons that you push to reset. I push them as hard as I can and nothing happens so I am led to believe that they have not been triggered and the box can’t be reset Because it didn’t malfunction
     
  6. Trask99

    Trask99 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2020
    Location:
    PNW
    I feel a lot of urgency since I am living without water and it is difficult. I need to fix before winter comes in force. I will measure the voltage and get back to everyone. I believe it was 120 everywhere I measured, so should add up to 240.

    So the start capacitor can fail even if it’s getting power and I’m getting readings on all the wires going in and out of it? If the air pressure issue isn’t the main thing I’ll put that to the side for now. Attached is a picture of the control box label. I can’t decide which is harder wiring up a new box or start capacitor. Both seem daunting but no quick fix it sounds like. Thanks for the help.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    I am not a pro. You have a Franklin 2821011100 control box.

    I would really like you to take voltage readings L1 to L2. Current reading through L1. Current reading thru

    A new control box may get you going. The deluxe control box has a relay to switch power so that the pressure switch is not carrying full motor current. I think you don't have the deluxe box, because of the wiring. Somebody may know better what you need, but I am suspecting that a Franklin 2823018110 (282 301 8110) may get you going.
    https://www.zoro.com/franklin-electric-simplex-submersible-pump-control-panel-2823018110/i/G2095536/
    https://www.rcworst.com/Franklin-El...x-2-0-HP-230V-1PH-For-3-Wire-Motors-p201.html


    You look around and see what you think.

    An electrician may be able to do the wiring swap. L1 and L2 are 240 power from the Coyote box.

    The problem may not be the control box. If you don't have about 240 on the L1-L2 before the circuit breaker trips, then look elsewhere for the problem.

    Replacing parts of the control box is possible too. The 105-126 microfarad would be the most probable failure. Those are non-polarized electrolytic capacitors, and are destined to fail. You could leave the replacement dangling loose until you could get it fixed right.

    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Packard-PTMJ105-220-250V-Start-Capacitor-105-126-MFD looks similar to the Franklin 275464137S.

    img_5.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
  8. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    No that is not a deluxe control box, just standard. 120V on each leg doesn't always add up to 240V. Make sure you have 240V to the L1 and L2 connectors in the control box. You may also want to bypass the Coyote to make sure it isn't the problem. Then pushing hard on those red buttons at the bottom should get power to the pump. If you have 240V on L1 and L2, then check around one of those wires to see how many amps it is drawing. Zero amps means the pump is not running. 11.8 amps means the pump is producing a lot of water, and you have a hole or break in the pipe. Low amps would mean out of water, shaft broken, screen clogged, or no flow for some other reason.
     
  9. Trask99

    Trask99 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2020
    Location:
    PNW
    Thanks again for all the helpful feedback. Wanted to update everyone on what I found after doing extensive testing and face timing my electrical engineer friend. Something is happening between the breaker in the house and the breaker in the Pump house. Even though there is nothing else attached to the line only 105 V is getting to the breaker box in the pump house. Looks like it is more sponge baths for me until I can get an electrician out here LOL
     
  10. Boycedrilling

    Boycedrilling In the Trades

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2013
    Location:
    Royal City, WA
    If that set of conductors was in conduit, you could just pull new wires. I’m going to assume it’s direct bury and one of the two current carrying conductors has developed a fault. Probably going to be just as easy to trench in a whole new line as it will be to find and repair the fault. You probably don’t have access to a fault finder.

    I don’t install any underground wire that isn’t in conduit. 1st it’s replaceable. 2nd, most faults are caused by rodents. Conduit helps to reduce rodent damage.
     
    valveman likes this.
  11. John Spada

    John Spada New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2020
    Location:
    Ohio
    It seems simple and you may have addressed it, but be sure all the wiring connections at the breakers are in good condition and tight. don't ask how I know this may be the issue...
     
    Reach4 likes this.
  12. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Is that a long lead time?
     
  13. Trask99

    Trask99 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2020
    Location:
    PNW
    3 weeks, but honestly now that I am in a groove with bringing water in things aren’t too bad. Will be taking a Basic electrician class at the local community college post Covid that is for sure.
     
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