Leave one leg hot for heat lamp?

[Bagsofcole]

Hello All,

We recently moved to the great white north, of Georgia, and this is my first home with a well, and where it freezes. The previous owner would string out 100 ft of extension cord over the driveway and down the hill to the well every winter to power a heater in the event of a freeze.

The thing is there is already a 110 outlet at the well head, branched off one of the 120/240 legs that power the well pump, but it only gets power when calling for the well to pump because the pressure switch is hundreds of feet away. The well controller is a Frankin MODEL 2823018110 pump controller with a 3 wire pump.

I'd like to bypass the pressure switch on one of the legs so the outlet and one side of the well controller get power all the time. Will this damage the pump? If this is ok, does it matter what leg will get power all the time? The wiring diagram of the well controller does mention "Line power from two pole fused switch or circuit breaker, and other control if used". I assume this controller was the only switch at one time, as the pressure tank and valve were added during a renovation before I took ownership. Thanks in advance!

 

[Bagsofcole]

And I want to thank @Valveman for his reply on my previous thread. I can't reply to it, I assume it's because I'm a new user and it's under review.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

Sorry. Don't know why the thread is approved but the last post was not? I replied.

 

[wwhitney]

Several comments based on the NEC:

The wiring to the well house needs to be 3 wires (2 hots and a neutral) plus an EGC if you want to run 120V loads in addition to the 2-wire 240V well pump. If you only have 2-wires plus EGC, your idea cannot work. You could power a 240V heat strip, but you don't have any way to control the well pump and the heat strip separately.

Your well house needs a disconnect that breaks all ungrounded (hot) conductors supplying it. That could be as simple as a double pole toggle switch in a single gang box, with ampere rating at least that of the breaker protecting the supply to the well house at the panel in the house.

If the heat strip is designed to plug into a normal 15A 120V receptacle, then you can only power it from the same branch circuit as your well pump if your well pump is on a 15A or 20A circuit. If it's on a 25A or larger circuit, you'd need to install a panel at the well house so you can protect the receptacle for the heat strip at 15A or 20A. That in turns means that your well house would need a grounding electrode system, e.g. 2 ground rods connected to the EGC bar in that panel. If the panel has a main breaker, that could serve as your disconnect.

Now if you have all the proper disconnects as above, your well pump controller (pressure switch) only has to break one of the two conductors to the well pump. So yes, NEC-wise, you could leave the other ungrounded conductor unbroken by the well pump controller. I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable about well pumps to know if there is some reason specific to that type of load that would make it a bad idea.

However, if the heat strip is going to be energized while the well pump is running, you need to check that the combined load does not exceed the branch circuit rating. For example, say the well pump has a full load current of 10A and is on a 20A circuit, and your heat strip draws 8A. That would exceed what is allowed on a 20A circuit, as motor loads require a 125% factor (maybe heat strip do as well, not sure?), and 125% * 10A + 8A > 20A.

[Edit: this paragraph was out of place logically] You will also have to check the conductor size to the well house. A 10A motor load is allowed on a 20A circuit with only #14 conductors; if it is a 60C wiring method (e.g. UF cable), #14 conductors only have an ampacity of 15A, and so you could only add 2.5A of additional load, despite the 20A breaker.

If you have a problem with both loads operating simultaneously, you could set up a relay with a 240V coil so that when both hot conductors are energized, the supply to the heat strip is broken, so that the two loads are never on simultaneously. Since the well pump only runs for short intermittent periods, that presumably would not keep the heat strip from maintaining temperature.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

Have you considered getting a pitless adapter installed? Then there is no worry about freezing at the well.

 

[Bagsofcole]

Have you considered getting a pitless adapter installed? Then there is no worry about freezing at the well.

I have not, until now. I'll check it out, thanks.

 

[Bagsofcole]

Several comments based on the NEC:

The wiring to the well house needs to be 3 wires (2 hots and a neutral) plus an EGC if you want to run 120V loads in addition to the 2-wire 240V well pump. If you only have 2-wires plus EGC, your idea cannot work. You could power a 240V heat strip, but you don't have any way to control the well pump and the heat strip separately.

Your well house needs a disconnect that breaks all ungrounded (hot) conductors supplying it. That could be as simple as a double pole toggle switch in a single gang box, with ampere rating at least that of the breaker protecting the supply to the well house at the panel in the house.

If the heat strip is designed to plug into a normal 15A 120V receptacle, then you can only power it from the same branch circuit as your well pump if your well pump is on a 15A or 20A circuit. If it's on a 25A or larger circuit, you'd need to install a panel at the well house so you can protect the receptacle for the heat strip at 15A or 20A. That in turns means that your well house would need a grounding electrode system, e.g. 2 ground rods connected to the EGC bar in that panel. If the panel has a main breaker, that could serve as your disconnect.

Now if you have all the proper disconnects as above, your well pump controller (pressure switch) only has to break one of the two conductors to the well pump. So yes, NEC-wise, you could leave the other ungrounded conductor unbroken by the well pump controller. I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable about well pumps to know if there is some reason specific to that type of load that would make it a bad idea.

However, if the heat strip is going to be energized while the well pump is running, you need to check that the combined load does not exceed the branch circuit rating. For example, say the well pump has a full load current of 10A and is on a 20A circuit, and your heat strip draws 8A. That would exceed what is allowed on a 20A circuit, as motor loads require a 125% factor (maybe heat strip do as well, not sure?), and 125% * 10A + 8A > 20A.

[Edit: this paragraph was out of place logically] You will also have to check the conductor size to the well house. A 10A motor load is allowed on a 20A circuit with only #14 conductors; if it is a 60C wiring method (e.g. UF cable), #14 conductors only have an ampacity of 15A, and so you could only add 2.5A of additional load, despite the 20A breaker.

If you have a problem with both loads operating simultaneously, you could set up a relay with a 240V coil so that when both hot conductors are energized, the supply to the heat strip is broken, so that the two loads are never on simultaneously. Since the well pump only runs for short intermittent periods, that presumably would not keep the heat strip from maintaining temperature.

Cheers, Wayne

Thanks Wayne for the super detailed reply! I'll rerun all the numbers. Mostly looking to make sure I won't damage my pump with 120 always running to one side. And trying to avoid pulling 3 more conductors to the well, that wire's been buried in the conduit for 30ish years.

 

[wwhitney]

Thanks Wayne for the super detailed reply! I'll rerun all the numbers.

As I commented, the very first question is how many conductors and what size are run to the pump house?

If you have only 2 conductors plus EGC (e.g. black, red or white (depending on wiring method), and bare or green), which is all the well pump itself requires, you have no way to run a 120V load alongside with the 240V pump. You could run a 240V load alongside the pump, but you have no wired way to control them separately. You'd need to come up with a wireless control scheme, not sure that's possible in a way that would be robust enough for a critical service like a well pump, or run a new supply, which is what you are trying to avoid.

You'd need 3 conductors plus EGC (e.g. black, red, white and bare or green) to attempt a wired solution to supplying both a heat strip and a well pump.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

I have not, until now. I'll check it out, thanks.

Tell us about the well... for example submersible pump and the "well seal" is 4.5 inches across, and appears to use 4-inch ID steel casing. ...Or appears to use 5 inch ID PVC....

 

[Bagsofcole]

I'm not going to pretend to know much about wells, but here's a pic. I'll go down there and measure the diameter later today.

 

[Reach4]

One think I note is that you have an above ground check valve. It is normally better to not have that, having the only check valve in and/or just-above the submersible pump.

In addition to the measurement, see if you can peek under the edge of the well seal to see if it looks like PVC or steel. I suspect steel.

I am also curious if that tee above the middle of the well seal is galvanized (which rusts) or brass/bronze. So take a magnet off of the fridge to check that. Not a big deal, but it will be interesting.

 

[Bannerman]

Agree'd, there should be only one check valve, that is, the one within or threaded to the outlet connection of the submersible pump.

If a pitless adaptor was utilized, which is standard practice in locations which normally experience freezing temperatures, then neither the additional heat source nor insulated enclosure would be needed.

A pitless adaptor permits the supply line to exit from the well casing below the frost line, thereby allowing the supply line to the house to remain completely buried at sufficient depth to prevent freezing, with no additional external heat source needed.

 

[Bannerman]

see if you can peek under the edge of the well seal to see if it looks like PVC or steel.

If you attempt this, do not unthread the bolts to cause them to be removed, as doing so, may cause the internal steel plate and rubber seal to fall into the well casing where you may not be able to retrieve them.

To release the well seal to allow it to be pried up from the top of the casing, the bolts only need to be loosened.

 

[Reach4]

If you attempt this, do not unthread the bolts to cause them to be removed, as doing so, may cause the internal steel plate and rubber seal to fall into the well casing where you may not be able to retrieve them.

Good point. I was not suggesting Bagsofcole lifting the well seal, but rather to see if there was a bit of casing visible between the well seal and the concrete.

I think putting in a pitless would best be done by a well pro who works with pitless adapters. If the casing is steel, welding will be involved.

The reason for my asking for material info and size was to forecast how expensive this will be. You are not going to want to put a 4 inch pump back into a 4 inch steel casing. If 4 inch steel, a 3-inch SQ pump should work. The pitless may or may not have to be a thru-way/clear-way pitless depending on diameter of the casing.

 

[Bagsofcole]

Hey @Reach4 and @Bannerman here are a few more photos. Apologies if I get the terms wrong, but it appears the T at the top of the well casing is magnetic, galvanized I assume. Also, the well casing appears to be 7" PVC above the concrete. Not sure I'm the man to install the pitless, especially if it requires breaking up that concrete pad. I can say we don't freeze much so I don't think the frost line is very low. What would you estimate that would cost to be installed by a pro?

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[Reach4]

Also, the well casing appears to be 7" PVC above the concrete. Not sure I'm the man to install the pitless, especially if it requires breaking up that concrete pad. I can say we don't freeze much so I don't think the frost line is very low. What would you estimate that would cost to be installed by a pro?

Good news. Even 6 inch PVC would let you use a common trapezoidal BX type pitless. Nice.

If the area is too warm, the local well people may not be used to working with pitless adapters.

I am going to estimate $3000, reusing the same pump, but I could be well off either way. I could be pessimistic. But now you can contact some well folks, and provide some easy info... 6 inch or more ID PVC casing, submersible pump. You want a pitless to replace your well seal.

The well person will suggest a new pump. While I would resist that, others may suggest that.

I suggest a flow inducer. That should not add much to the price.