Dropping water pressure after neutralize refill

[Lukasny]

My water pressure started to act up right after company added neutralizer. When I turn on water it will go almost normally but within seconds starts to drop pressure. I can't use sink and shower at the same time. When I bypass softener pressure is constant and strong. Any ideas what is happening? Thanks

P.s I'm on well with constant pressure system set to 70psi

 

[Bannerman]

When I bypass softener pressure is constant and strong.

While the title of this thread suggests the neutralizer utilizes a backwashing control valve, your narration doesn't mention backwashing, but does state water pressure is strong while bypassing the softener.

A neutralizer that is not equipped with a backwashing head will be usually plumbed counterflow, to cause the media to be lifted and fluidized while there is water flow to the house fixtures. When there is a backwashing control valve, the media should be backwashed at the appropriate flow rate to cause the media to loosen and fluidize, thereby promoting water flow after returning to Service Mode to supply the home's fixtures.

A neutralizer and softener should each utilize their own bypass valves to allow one or the other to be bypassed when there is an issue. If the existing bypass valves are bypassing both the softener and neutralizer, the flow loss could actually be caused by the softener which coincidentally occurred after the neutralizer was installed.

Post some photos of both units and also indicate the tank diameter for the neutralizer and the order of water flow (softener 1st or neutralizer).

If the neutralizer is equipped with a backwashing control valve, it will be also useful to know the drain flow rate which may be specified on a label on the neutralizer, typically indicated as 'Drain Flow' or 'DLFC'. The usual recommended flow rate to backwash Calcium Carbonate neutralizer media is 8-12 GPM per square inch, so for example, the drain rate needed for a 10" diameter tank would be 4.3-6.5 GPM. If your well pump is capable, it would be beneficial to backwash at the full 6.5 GPM. If the tank diameter is larger, the flow rate will need to be greater.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Lukasny]

Neutralizer has backwash valve. I didn't know I can bypass individual tank.

 

[Reach4]

You see it now in 20211011_151443.jpg, right? I see the red behind the left softener tank. Is that a bypass?

That is quite the setup. You should draw a schematic and identify the 5 tanks. That right-hand tank is before the other 4 in the photo, I expect. Do you ever drain sediment from that? And is there a port on that tank that is not shown in the photo?

Do you also have a chemical injector?

 

[Bannerman]

Your system is obviously much more than just an acid neutralizer and softener.

The control valve shown for the acid neutralizer (AN) is a Fleck 5600 mechanical Filter valve with 12-day skipper dial. The 5600 has a limited drain flow rate so it is not the best valve for an AN application, but it appears to have been in place and utilized for that application for some time. You didn't specify the tank diameter.

Perhaps by saying "after company added neutralizer", you actually meant they added additional media to the exsisting tank, not a newly installed neutralizer as I had initially assumed.

The 5600 is shown equipped with a 2-handle bypass valve, and each control valve is likely similarly equipped.

The current time shown on the front of the 5600 is almost 3pm. Is that the correct time when you took the photo? If not, view the window on the back of the timer motor to verify the motor is actually operating. If the motor is not operating, the unit will not backwash which will lead to the media becoming compacted within the tank which will result in a flow restriction through the media.

Assuming the motor is operating, restore flow through all treatment devices and check the flow to home faucets. If flow continues to be restricted, bypass only the AN to determine if there is any flow improvement.

If the flow has improved, thereby confirming the AN is causing the restriction, unbypass the AN and manually turn the front control dial to the Backwash position to initiate a manual backwash cycle.

Once water is flowing to drain, unplug the AN's electrical power plug to allow the backwash cycle to further continue longer than usual. After allowing the unit to backwash for 30-minutes, restore electrical power and permit the unit to complete the remaining backwash cycle itself.

Once the control dial has returned to the 'In Service' position, test the flow rate to faucets to determine if flow has improved.

Although not fully visable, it appears the skipper dial tabs maybe pulled out inconsistantly so backwash is programmed to occur sometimes after 2-days, and sometimes after 5-days. Suggest resetting the tabs so a backwash cycle will be performed consistently every 2 or 3-days.

 

[Lukasny]

AN and Carbon tank sizes are 10x54 PG 2.5"T
Softener 2 tanks are 14x65

- what is your recommendation for AN and Carbon tank vales that don't limit drain flow ?

- On the picture I attached is the valve I closed to bypass AN (I hope it is correct one but pressure increased a lot). It seems like AN kills my pressure by 50%. I have tried to backwash both Carbon and AN with unplugging like you recommended but it didn't help much.

- it seems motor on both valves works fine

Sorry I'm new to that softener and water well business I know it make it hard for you guys to help me solve this issue but I appreciate your help.

 

[Reach4]

In 20211022_095355.jpg the bypass valve is in its normal in-service setting. To bypass the valve and tank, turn both pieces 90 degrees.

 

[Lukasny]

In 20211022_095355.jpg the bypass valve is in its normal in-service setting. To bypass the valve and tank, turn both pieces 90 degrees.

Sorry picture was taken prior turning that valve. What happens if I only turn the one I marked?

 

[Reach4]

What happens if I only turn the one I marked?

I think you circled the input side, and I think that blocks the water flow.

 

[Lukasny]

I think you circled the input side, and I think that blocks the water flow.

I closed both valves on AN and pressure is amazing - any ideas what wrong with that tank ?

 

[Bannerman]

Have you proceeded to perform the recommended proceedures in post #5 above?

 

[Lukasny]

Have you proceeded to perform the recommended proceedures in post #5 above?

I did. Didn't help much.
Also I just checked last years water test and out well pH levels are 4.59

 

[Reach4]

You can shine a bright light through the tank in the dark, and see the shadow of the media. During backwash, that should expand. I think backwash through a 10-inch calcite tank should be 7 gpm or more.

How long after the company added media into the top port did the pressure drop during flows occur? Same day, 2 months later?

I have never even seen a neutralizer tank, but have read some threads. This one suggests emptying and cleaning.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....acid-neutralizer-bypass-pressure-is-ok.51982/

If it comes time to replace, look into soda ash (or other) injection instead.

 

[Lukasny]

It started same day or next after refill.
How can I check gpm on my system ?

Also I made a diagram ( chlorine injector is included but Im not using it since my iron levels are low )

 

[Reach4]

How can I check gpm on my system ?

The real way is to run the drainline into a 5-gallon bucket during backwash. Time how long it takes to fill in seconds (call that S). Then 300/S would be the GPM.

You could also look at the DLFC washer to see what whoever set the system planned. The number opposite the F would say 700 for 7 gpm, and 500 for 5 gpm. The actual flow could be less due to what the pump can do or, as we suspect for you, clogged media.

A Fleck 5600 maxes out at about 7 gpm, and sometimes people remove the DLFC washer to maximize backwash.

 

[Reach4]

On your added diagram, where is the pressure switch? Is it on the gray tank, or is it on a pressure tank not shown.

Where is the water from the well entering the diagram, and where is water to the house leaving?

I would suspect the two smaller almond-color tanks would be in series.

So check the paths.

 

[Lukasny]

I just updated my diagram. Other picture is constant pressure system that goes into softener. I don't see any pressure switch. The on from retention is flow switch for injector ( I think )

 

[Reach4]

So your DIAG2.jpg shows the chlorine injection the softener. Chlorine like this is often used to remove iron and Mn, but a softener also removes those things. The softener doing significant such removal needs extra cleaning. I would expect the chlorine and contact tank to be before the softener. Then the carbon tank removes residual chlorine. The iron and Mn should settle into the bottom of the contact tank, and you would drain the precipitates out periodically.

 

[Lukasny]

So your DIAG2.jpg shows the chlorine injection the softener. Chlorine like this is often used to remove iron and Mn, but a softener also removes those things. The softener doing significant such removal needs extra cleaning. I would expect the chlorine and contact tank to be before the softener. Then the carbon tank removes residual chlorine. The iron and Mn should settle into the bottom of the contact tank, and you would drain the precipitates out periodically.

Actually I'm not using injector at this moment. My iron levels are <0.20 mg/L (applicable standard is 0.3) and Manganese 31.8 ug/L (applicable standard is 50).