Yes we charged both ups bit in the spring to 58 each. Last week they were both at 64psi for some reason?usually you expect about 25% of the nominal capacity. That is reduced some at higher pressures.
25% would be 59.5 gallons, so you are low.
With a submersible pump, the air precharge should be 58 psi.
When the water pressure is zero, the pressure tanks should be empty of water. So they are relatively light. With water pressure zero, see if one seems heavier. Maybe try knocking on the sides of the empty tanks.
We have 4 properties on the 2 tank system. It works not too bad but I'm farther up a hill.With a 60/80 pressure setting a 119 gallon tank will hold 25.13 gallons or 50.26 with two tanks. You should get a little more than that when draining the tank completely out as the air charge pressure is lower than the pressure switch on setting. The amount of air charge in the tank has an effect on how much water a tank actually holds.
Pressure tanks are not designed to "store" water. Even though those tanks can have 50 gallons in them when full at 80 PSI, when the power goes off you have no way of knowing how much water is still in the tanks. If the pressure is at 61 PSI when the power goes off, those two huge tanks wouldn't have enough water to flush a toilet.
With a Cycle Stop Valve controlling the pump, even at 60/80 pressure a house only needs a 10 gallon size tank. One of those 119 gallon size tanks is more than needed to supply a city of a quarter million people when working with a CSV.
Yes I've thought that air is being pulled down my line because when I turn a faucet on air is right there coming out. Sometimes its mid stream after a while on too.Submersible pumps can pull air if the well is running dry. Another possibility is that the big water use is lower down, and air is entering from above via a vacuum breaker.
Once the water pressure falls to the air precharge level, nearly all of the water and air below the diaphragm comes out.
Perfect!We have 42 gal total drawdown right now so our 2 tanks are being emptied, pump come on, bypasses the tanks and goes straight to hydrant and never shuts off until the last container is filled and finally 2 minutes later the pump shuts off once at 80 psi. if its running 4-5 times longer than usual is it damaging the pump?
When I see they are opening and closing the hydrant below 400' away and 50-60' below, my kitchen faucet goes from 2 Gpm to .5 Gpm and some times Zero.Not damaging the pump.
How much static (no flow) pressure difference is there from the lowest tap to the highest?
If during the yard hydrant using water, the pressure drops to less than that difference, then air could be being pulled in from higher. One thing that would seem to stop that would be to put a check valve in series with the pipe(s) going to the higher places.
Another thought is to somehow limit the flow from that yard hydrant. https://www.agriculturesolutions.com/water-flow-regulator-kit-choose-1-2-3-4-or-5gpm
You could also use GHT adapters with a Dole valve. Those come in a lot off different flows.
I realize these pumps can run continually as you and Reach4 are stating but my concern is damage to the pump as the water table is much lower now so running it for 8 minutes compared to 1.5 minutes might be dropping the well level and its sucking air. We don't have an underground lake.Perfect!
Pumps are designed to operate continuously, and will achieve longest life if running 24/7/365 without cycling On/Off. It is constant cycling that will reduce the lifespan of not only the pump but also the pressure switch, check valve and pressure tank diaphragm. Ideally, you will always want to use 100% of the pump's capacity, just as you stated has been flowing to the yard hydrants since that will prevent the pump from cycling.
When water use is less than the pump's flow capacity, then the excess pump capacity will fill the pressure tank. Once the system pressure rises to the pressure switch cut off setting, then the PS will shut down the pump, but if water consumption continues, then the PS will reactivate the pump again and the entire process will be continually repeated for as long as water use continues.
To minimize cycling, the pressure tank usually needs to be sized so the pump once activated, will run for at least 60 seconds minimum, but preferably 2-minutes after no further water is being utilized.
I stated the word 'usually' as Valveman's Cycle Stop Valve device will change how your existing pump will deliver water, and will prevent cycling when at least 1 GPM is being utilized, even when using a very small 4.5 gallon pressure tank.
When the pressure looks like zero, it might become less than zero. So the air could suck in via your open faucet. A check valve on the incoming water could prevent that, but the other high-house should also have a check valve, or the check valve should be in line with both high-houses. But even if it was just for your house, it should cause less air to be in your line. Your high neighbor could still admit air if that neighbor opens a faucet while the pressure is below zero.When I see they are opening and closing the hydrant below 400' away and 50-60' below, my kitchen faucet goes from 2 Gpm to .5 Gpm and some times Zero.
Yes.Another question is can one tank be leaking air out the valve and that's why it had more water volume? We didn't put water on the valve but will next time to test.
It does go "thump". There's no splashing sound above the diaphragm when moving the tank empty or full. During our pressure test when empty it only had 24 psi and we got 90 gallons out when draining both tanks out to zero.If you put 58 PSI air in a tank, it should be completely empty when the pressure drops to 57 PSI. If it did not go "thump" and the bladder hit the bottom of the tank at 57 PSI, something is wrong with the bladder. Draining all the way down to zero pressure slowly is a sign the bladder is bad. There could be water on top of the diaphragm, and the tank will not deliver as much draw down. Or, the diaphragm could be torn so badly it is doing nothing, letting the tank hold way more than the 25 gallons it should, but not delivering much draw down above the 58 PSI mark as it should.
With a Cycle Stop Valve the pump doesn't cycle on and off like a clock, which keeps the tank diaphragms from going up and down over and over until they tear. Without a CSV it is not a matter of if but when the tank will fail, as the diaphragm goes up and down with every cycle of the pump.
This is awkward, but...
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