Submersible Well Issue?

[dfixit1]

So there are pro’s and cons to the CSV.
I found this website but my own beta test is just beginning with my electrical usage and pump life.
Thanks everybody for your input and suggestions.

https://www.answerthehome.com/cycle-stop-valve-pros-and-cons/

 

[Bannerman]

Above you said this: “Taking 6 minutes to fill 7 gallons in a tank and not cycling on and off while the softener regenerates means the pump is only producing about 1 GPM. I would guess you either have a hole in the drop pipe at the pump or the pump itself is worn out.”

Valveman said that before you confirmed a CSV is installed. Using a CSV, explains the symptoms you describe, and confirms the CSV continues to operate as intended.

Many pump installers do not understand how a CSV functions, or the benefits. Those people often make claims of how a CSV will not work or will damage the pump and other components, even as those claims are not substantiated.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[dfixit1]

Valveman said that before you confirmed a CSV is installed. Using a CSV, explains the symptoms you describe, and confirms the CSV continues to operate as intended.

Many pump installers do not understand how a CSV functions, or the benefits. Those people often make claims of how a CSV will not work or will damage the pump and other components, even as those claims are not substantiated.

Well before that he said: “Sounds like you have a Cycle Stop Valve set at 52 psi? Only way that makes sense.”

And you said:”Many pump installers do not understand how a CSV functions, or the benefits. Those people often make claims of how a CSV will not work or will damage the pump and other components, even as those claims are not substantiated.”

The claims that the makers of a CSV are not substantiated either. So there’s the crux of the dilemma.

All I can say is the well installer didn’t label the tank that it had one. My pump running time was getting too long and my electric bill was getting too high. If I didn’t put a camera on the well pressure gauge with alerts I wouldn’t have caught the issue.

Tonight I took a shower for the first time without the pressure fluctuating too low and slowly increasing, it was actually even and that was a plus for me. I believe my electric bill will also be lower too. As I said earlier, Im beta testing. The results will soon be clear. Pro CSV or Negative CSV?

 

[Bannerman]

My pump running time was getting too long and my electric bill was getting too high.

As previously stated, the electrical power consumed by the pump, is usually lower while using a CSV.

To clarify, without a CSV, pressure to faucets will be either dropping from 60 psi down to 40 whereby the pump will become activated, then the pressure will rise again.

Once the pump is running, it will be pushing out maximum flow, so if not all of that water is being consumed, such as while running a 2.5 GPM shower head, then the pump's additional GPM capacity will flow to the pressure tank. Once the pressure rises to 60 PSI, the pressure switch will shut off the pump, which will cause the system pressure to begin to drop again, and the cycle will continue for as long as water continues to be consumed.

Starting the pump each time will result in additional electrical load being briefly placed on the system, which will result in greater heat within the pump motor from the higher current draw during each startup. Repeated Starts/Stops within short time periods, will cause significantly greater heat buildup in the motor, and without sufficient run time to cause cooling water to flow over the motor, the motor is more likely to overheat.

With a CSV, because a CSV only controls the flow rate from the pump, the initial pressure to faucets will become lower until the pump becomes activated, then the pump will continue to run and the pressure from the CSV will remain constant for as long as >1 GPM continues to be consumed, regardless of whether that is 5-minutes, 5-hours, 5-days, 5-weeks or 5-years.

Because a CSV will vary the flow rate from the pump to equal the rate of flow being consumed, the pump will typically need to move less GPM than it's capable of doing, which will reduce the pump's workload, which will usually reduce the power consumed and the amount of heat generated. With fewer Start cycles, there will be less additional electricity consumed for startups, and the longer run times will continue to draw cold water over the pump's electric motor.

 

[Valveman]

So there are pro’s and cons to the CSV.
I found this website but my own beta test is just beginning with my electrical usage and pump life.
Thanks everybody for your input and suggestions.

https://www.answerthehome.com/cycle-stop-valve-pros-and-cons/

There are no cons to a CSV. The links you gave are from people who have no idea what they are talking about, make up fake news to make something controversial that is not, because they get paid for clicks. Fake news gets more clicks than real news. Answer the home people are just trying to get you to click on their site to buy something. Larrey Elterman is an idiot making videos for clicks. He knows his videos are fake news, but says he wants a couple thousand ransom from me to take them off the site because he is making money on the clicks.

The claims that the makers of a CSV are not substantiated either.

Wrong! Every claim I make is substantiated. "Pumps are made to run continuously. Cycling on and off is what destroys pumps. Back pressure is good for pumps, makes the amps drop and the motor run cooler." All this stuff is common pump knowledge and in any text book about pumps.

You have been "beta testing" a Cycle Stop Valve since 2005 and didn't even know it. But you proved the CSV does not hurt a pump and has made your pump last 19 years so far when the average life is only seven years without a CSV. You were the one who turned up the pressure switch and caused it to take 6 minutes to fill the tank instead of 3 minutes.

I don't normally hear anyone complaining that the pump is just running continuously and delivering a strong constant 52 PSI no matter how much or how little water is being used. I don't normally hear anyone complaining about it taking a few minutes to fill the pressure tank as both of those are good things. I usually hear people complaining that the pump is cycling on and off a half dozen times while the softener back flushes. Or, the pressure keeps going up and down in the shower while the pump is cycling on and off. And that the pump fills the tank is just a few seconds and does it often.

Just like the two people you linked to that do not know what they are doing, It doesn't do any good to "beta test" something is you do not understand good results from bad results. If you don't know that holding 52 PSI strong and constant no matter what you do and taking a few minutes to fill the tank will make the pump last longer, use less electricity, and supply much better pressure to the house, then what are you testing to find out?

If you had not had a Cycle Stop Valve you would be purchasing your third expensive pump, and have spent years been complaining about water hammer and pressure fluctuations. That is when people call me and get a Cycle Stop Valve so their pump will work as good as yours has been for all those years.

Oh, and I have a 1/2HP that runs 24/7/365 and hasn't shut off since 1996. It uses about $40 of electricity a month. So, a high electric bill cannot be blamed on your pump system.

 

[Valveman]

Here are the cons listed on that stupid homes web page. Makes me wonder how many other of their other little videos and articles are as inaccurate as the one on Cycle Stop Valves? Best I can tell this entire web page is designed to get you to click on and purchase their "bamboo wipes". Lol!!!


Costly: Cycle stop valves are pretty much costly. So decide properly before you buy one.
$89-$224 for a CSV compared to $500-$5000 for a large pressure tank or VFD system.

Not effective for powerful pumps: In the case of robust pumps, cycle stop valves don’t show the same efficiency as normal ones.
What the heck does that even mean? The larger the pump the more effective a Cycle Stop Valve is.

Refills slowly in big tanks: Because of the constant water pressure takes a lot of time while filling up a big tank. To wait that long could be irritating.
As was explained earlier, it doesn't take any extra time to fill a big tank with a CSV when the pressure is set accordingly.

Excessive back pressure: The back pressure it provides can damage the pipes. And if that pipe has any kind of weak spot, there is a chance that the pipe could burst.
Wrong again! No pump can make more back pressure than it can take. Pipes are rated for much more pressure than most pumps can build. More chance a pipe can burst from water hammer from not having a CSV. And again. back pressure is good for pumps. making them draw low amps, run cooler, and not cycle on/off, which makes them last longer.

 

[Valveman]

As previously stated, the electrical power consumed by the pump, is usually lower while using a CSV.

To clarify, without a CSV, pressure to faucets will be either dropping from 60 psi down to 40 whereby the pump will become activated, then the pressure will rise again.

Once the pump is running, it will be pushing out maximum flow, so if not all of that water is being consumed, such as while running a 2.5 GPM shower head, then the pump's additional GPM capacity will flow to the pressure tank. Once the pressure rises to 60 PSI, the pressure switch will shut off the pump, which will cause the system pressure to begin to drop again, and the cycle will continue for as long as water continues to be consumed.

Starting the pump each time will result in additional electrical load being briefly placed on the system, which will result in greater heat within the pump motor from the higher current draw during each startup. Repeated Starts/Stops within short time periods, will cause significantly greater heat buildup in the motor, and without sufficient run time to cause cooling water to flow over the motor, the motor is more likely to overheat.

With a CSV, because a CSV only controls the flow rate from the pump, the initial pressure to faucets will become lower until the pump becomes activated, then the pump will continue to run and the pressure from the CSV will remain constant for as long as >1 GPM continues to be consumed, regardless of whether that is 5-minutes, 5-hours, 5-days, 5-weeks or 5-years.

Because a CSV will vary the flow rate from the pump to equal the rate of flow being consumed, the pump will typically need to move less GPM than it's capable of doing, which will reduce the pump's workload, which will usually reduce the power consumed and the amount of heat generated. With fewer Start cycles, there will be less additional electricity consumed for startups, and the longer run times will continue to draw cold water over the pump's electric motor.

Thanks for the great explanation Bannerman. But a logical explanation doesn't help with someone who has been seeing it with their own eyes for years and don't know how good a thing it is. People only appreciate a Cycle Stop Valve when they have gone through the misery and problems of not having one for years.

 

[Valveman]

So there are pro’s and cons to the CSV.
I found this website but my own beta test is just beginning with my electrical usage and pump life.
Thanks everybody for your input and suggestions.

https://www.answerthehome.com/cycle-stop-valve-pros-and-cons/

If you really want them removed I will remove them for 2000 dollars.
That's very fair considering i am still making some money from those videos.
Larry Elterman


I just refuse to pay the ransom. This should be illegal or at least removed by youtube. But they make more on clicks for fake news than real news so they are not going to do anything.