farmerisland
New Member
Hey guys. I need to share a little back story to give proper context of my issue with some upstairs very old plumbing. I live in an old farmhouse that was originally Mennonite-built in 1890. There was no indoor plumbing initially but the main floor bath was put in by my grandparents at some point. The waste/drain pipes from under there to basement access have been replaced with PVC. The copper water lines coming up behind the shower are newer too from around 1998, and they go to grey plastic further down in the basement. The waste stack is cast iron coming up from basement where the pvc under that bath drains into. Accessible from a "closet" with a wall door opening behind the shower. The hvac pipe, some electrical, and the plumbing all coming up in that passageway to the upstairs.
Now... the problem is with the upstairs bath which got put in in 1960, where they just ran the waste drain into what is the vent stack for that main floor. Partway up from that main floor access door behind the shower, the cast iron turns to smaller 3" copper. The pipe coming up to the upstairs looks black, but it almost has to be copper, right? Because everything viewable up there is 3" copper pipe, with brass elbow fittings. That copper vent stack comes up and then right below the floor joists upstairs, it tees right into the north wall cavity behind the lath & plaster, then elbow up through wall, attic, and roof. The topside of the tee then elbows west about 9 foot to the shower drain in this small bathroom they did in 1960. The pipe is cut perp through the floor joists though, and the floor cavity is barely deep enough anyway. That waste line is virtually flat flat.
All of this setup has been working okay for 60 plus years though, until I started opening this can of worms and discovering all this, ultimately because 6 months ago we started having a lot of gurgling and air venting noise from the bathroom sinks and toilet drainage. Because it was more than one floor I figured it wasn't a clog, but I double checked. I also ruled out septic tank because it was overdue to be pumped and checked out anyway. Got pumped and augered from main floor toilet all the way out to the tank to be sure. Leading to what I figured it was anyway, the roof vent. Tried to snake from the roof with nothing. Somebody told me to run a garden hose down the stack so I did, but I ended up with water gushing down my wall cavity in the basement!! Thus that copper vent stack had at a minimum, pinholing. I have now confirmed it's a lot worse than pinholes though, and all the way up in that wall cavity to boot. Green corrosion running down the side of it for as far up as I can see. But... That horizontal copper waste line from the small bath looks good (at least the short section I've uncovered anyway) and that vertical chunk from the upstairs floor down to the main level turning to cast iron looks great yet too (looks black with no discoloration or visible damage).
My question for the professionals is, how invasive do I go? I'd rather spend the money and time and mess to do it right right than sluff off for a 5-10 yr fix. The whole reason why it's easy (easier) for me to access this described piping in the floor at the moment is we are ripping up carpet and putting in new floor. I wasn't planning on new subfloor but while I'm making a mess already, this is the time to open the wall up for that vent stack (at a minimum). But the question is, do I just replace that stack with pvc down to a fernco at the brass fittings, floor level? Or really is the right thing to do is replace all the copper, which would involve pulling more subfloor west (not such a big deal) but also have to either open the bathroom floor up in remodel fashion, or do it from below at ceiling level? Around 2008, there was a water leak from the copper waste line cracking where it ties under the toilet. At that time, the pervious owners did just that from below, opening the ceiling and changing out just what they needed to with pvc and drywalling a ceiling patch in. The rest of that copper going east (flat) across through the floor joists still stands.
What's my options? One could be just opening the lath and plaster up enough to replace that copper stack from floor level through the roof, and drywall patching in... Then there's the option of gutting at least two walls fully, insulating them (nothing currently with plaster) and drywalling after replacing that stack and all other copper, ripping up more floor to do so (and I suppose ceiling below too.... The upstairs shower was brand new in 2014 and hardly gets used so there's no need to rip that). If I opened that divide wall between the bath and that upstairs room where copper comes up and over, could/should I redirect venting up in that wall to the attic and tie over to the main stack that way? I know there's a lot typed here, but there's a lot of consider as well. Thanks.
Now... the problem is with the upstairs bath which got put in in 1960, where they just ran the waste drain into what is the vent stack for that main floor. Partway up from that main floor access door behind the shower, the cast iron turns to smaller 3" copper. The pipe coming up to the upstairs looks black, but it almost has to be copper, right? Because everything viewable up there is 3" copper pipe, with brass elbow fittings. That copper vent stack comes up and then right below the floor joists upstairs, it tees right into the north wall cavity behind the lath & plaster, then elbow up through wall, attic, and roof. The topside of the tee then elbows west about 9 foot to the shower drain in this small bathroom they did in 1960. The pipe is cut perp through the floor joists though, and the floor cavity is barely deep enough anyway. That waste line is virtually flat flat.
All of this setup has been working okay for 60 plus years though, until I started opening this can of worms and discovering all this, ultimately because 6 months ago we started having a lot of gurgling and air venting noise from the bathroom sinks and toilet drainage. Because it was more than one floor I figured it wasn't a clog, but I double checked. I also ruled out septic tank because it was overdue to be pumped and checked out anyway. Got pumped and augered from main floor toilet all the way out to the tank to be sure. Leading to what I figured it was anyway, the roof vent. Tried to snake from the roof with nothing. Somebody told me to run a garden hose down the stack so I did, but I ended up with water gushing down my wall cavity in the basement!! Thus that copper vent stack had at a minimum, pinholing. I have now confirmed it's a lot worse than pinholes though, and all the way up in that wall cavity to boot. Green corrosion running down the side of it for as far up as I can see. But... That horizontal copper waste line from the small bath looks good (at least the short section I've uncovered anyway) and that vertical chunk from the upstairs floor down to the main level turning to cast iron looks great yet too (looks black with no discoloration or visible damage).
My question for the professionals is, how invasive do I go? I'd rather spend the money and time and mess to do it right right than sluff off for a 5-10 yr fix. The whole reason why it's easy (easier) for me to access this described piping in the floor at the moment is we are ripping up carpet and putting in new floor. I wasn't planning on new subfloor but while I'm making a mess already, this is the time to open the wall up for that vent stack (at a minimum). But the question is, do I just replace that stack with pvc down to a fernco at the brass fittings, floor level? Or really is the right thing to do is replace all the copper, which would involve pulling more subfloor west (not such a big deal) but also have to either open the bathroom floor up in remodel fashion, or do it from below at ceiling level? Around 2008, there was a water leak from the copper waste line cracking where it ties under the toilet. At that time, the pervious owners did just that from below, opening the ceiling and changing out just what they needed to with pvc and drywalling a ceiling patch in. The rest of that copper going east (flat) across through the floor joists still stands.
What's my options? One could be just opening the lath and plaster up enough to replace that copper stack from floor level through the roof, and drywall patching in... Then there's the option of gutting at least two walls fully, insulating them (nothing currently with plaster) and drywalling after replacing that stack and all other copper, ripping up more floor to do so (and I suppose ceiling below too.... The upstairs shower was brand new in 2014 and hardly gets used so there's no need to rip that). If I opened that divide wall between the bath and that upstairs room where copper comes up and over, could/should I redirect venting up in that wall to the attic and tie over to the main stack that way? I know there's a lot typed here, but there's a lot of consider as well. Thanks.