Business Question (NSF)

[Gary Slusser]

If we think about this and decide the person had no intention of NOT paying the bill, then IMO all I would have to do to get my money is to make it easy for them to pay it.

Now if we think they wrote a bad check to get out of paying... we also must decide they are too dumb to be called stupid... because not paying bills literally costs them more than the dollars they 'saved', and for many years into the future.

How do you make it easy for them to pay you? Getting huffy and loudmouthed bullylike with a DO THIS BY whatever date AND NOW YOU PAY THE PENALTY type certified letter (with return receipt request) doesn't make it easy for them. And if they really don't have the money to pay you, what good is done by telling them to pay you?

That will not do anything to those that wrote the check in attempt to not pay, and it will piss off an honest person that made a mistake AND/or those that want to pay but simply are short this week/month. Especially if they have already spoken to you about paying the bill later.

I'd check with their bank every week for 3-4 weeks and I'd hold off the OFFICIAL stuff like this letter until I was positive they weren't going to pay without me clubbing 'em; then I'd club 'em as hard as possible and accept whatever happens and chalk it up to a business expense and move on instead of stewing over it... Life's too short to spend time being angry and feeling bad about something like this.

 

[GrumpyPlumber]

........How do you make it easy for them to pay you? Getting huffy and loudmouthed bullylike with a DO THIS BY whatever date AND NOW YOU PAY THE PENALTY type certified letter (with return receipt request) doesn't make it easy for them. And if they really don't have the money to pay you, what good is done by telling them to pay you? ......

That right there was 100% common sense.
In the military we were trained that we were absolutely NEVER to unholster our gun while on watch unless it was to fire it.
Warning/intimidation serves two purposes...creates fear, or anger...either way will likely get an adverse reaction.
If diplomacy/tact haven't worked...file a summons in court including legal/administrative fee's, no need to butt heads or exude anger.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Progression

Today was an interesting one:

I took that bounced check down to the county attorney's office as they have a bad check program. What it entails is the attorney's office sends a letter out the very next day, the one who wrote the check has 10 days to pay me the amount of the check PLUS $50 which covers their fee, my returned check fee. She went on to tell me what steps follow afterwards which can lead to the sheriff serving a summons to appear in court 3 different tries.

She did however say that this process could reach a stopping point if "I" cannot get more information like a driver's license or birth date. She put my mind at ease that rarely this ever goes to this level and the mere fact it is in the court's hands now....it's a legal matter. Not a "I'll worry about that bad check when I feel I need to" scenario.


I get a call at 5 o'clock today from the husband who's on that check. He says verbatim, " Hey I forgot that I need to pay you some money." "I owe you what, $110?" <<<<< less than what I had told him the one and only time we talked.

He asked if he could come over and pay me and I told him he needs to wait for the paperwork coming in the mail as this is now a legal matter. I told him that when you fell off the face of the earth after we talked and made no contact to follow up and pay your bill as requested, I took the steps to make sure you'll pay this bill.

When he gets the paperwork it will instruct him to pay me the amount of the bill PLUS $50 to cover court costs and RCF.

This $91 charge is nearing double for my 40 minutes to fix a simple leak. No sympathy to either of them for the lack of contact or I'm sorry or anything to let me know what's up with this whole situation.

They know I'm serious now, and I've probably ruined their weekend knowing that a court document is soon to follow.

I had checked the funds on that bounced check once since I posted this thread and was planning on making a habit to check and see if it was good or not.

Funny how the husband and not the wife called me today. LOL!!!!

 

[Cookie]

I am just wondering why you took a business matter personally? I would had told the husband he owed this much and tacked on whatever the other fees were and left it at that. In business, there is no need for apologies only the need to be paid. Keep it businesslike.

 

[Molo]

I hope you get paid, If someone offers to come over and pay, tell them you're waiting. Of course, good luck getting the extra $50 for the "bad check service. But you could always just write them a check, lol.

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

This being the second check in 4 years that's bounced is good with my volume of work.

Giving a renter a chance to pay a bill without ****ing matters up was a disappointment as always and I should of known from dealing with them in the past.

If this became a habit with my customer base and the numbers were larger, that takes away from me and my family which is a personal nature.

I went through this so the next time this happens, I'll know exactly what to do with the check when it happens. I will though give them one chance like I did with the above.

I don't let strangers make the rules in my business, ever.

molo that document being sent includes those amounts which they inherited. I'm so glad I didn't go other ways on collecting this.


That brand new 48" flat screen tv I noticed in the living room has a strong bearing on my attitude. Especially when I watch my 27" 8 year old box tv.

 

[Cookie]

You can collect your monies but it should always be in a businesslike demeanor. That doesn't mean you can't use the route of legalities but certain aspects should be left out for it will only complicate issues. Any attempt on a customers willingness to pay should be gladly received if it is reasonable for various reasons. Only big business who can afford to lose money can play that game. I reckon in business a smart businessman might realize he might lose a few sheckles. I think it comes with the territory. Buy yourself a new tv they have come way down in price. I am looking at them, I got in my livingroom a 19inch. But, I really don't have much time to watch tv and if I did, I wouldn't anyways. I am only looking at new ones because I am tired of people telling me to get with the times. It is also, black and white.

 

[Molo]

This being the second check in 4 years that's bounced is good with my volume of work.

Giving a renter a chance to pay a bill without ****ing matters up was a disappointment as always and I should of known from dealing with them in the past.

If this became a habit with my customer base and the numbers were larger, that takes away from me and my family which is a personal nature.

I went through this so the next time this happens, I'll know exactly what to do with the check when it happens. I will though give them one chance like I did with the above.

I don't let strangers make the rules in my business, ever.

molo that document being sent includes those amounts which they inherited. I'm so glad I didn't go other ways on collecting this.


That brand new 48" flat screen tv I noticed in the living room has a strong bearing on my attitude. Especially when I watch my 27" 8 year old box tv.

I don't blame you about the strangers, do you know the folks at the bad check service personally?

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

I don't blame you about the strangers, do you know the folks at the bad check service personally?

No but the ladies were really nice. It was apparent that they like the thrill of the chase from the way they was acting. I like that.


She said the majority of businesses either aren't aware of the program or just don't bother. But as I repeat, I need to know these avenues so I learn as I go, I won't be upset the next time a check bounces because I have the court system on my side.

I'll sometimes convey emotion in print before I'll say it in words so most times I'm venting the situation here and handling it professionally in person.

All in all, it's a learning experience. That's what I need at this point for the future. I just dropped my cupcake on the floor.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

its the cost of doing business

Rugged.....Try to get over it....

if 100 bucks is the most you ever get screwed out of
over thenext 10 years you are doing very well....

you are going to waste a lot of time and frustration
trying to squeeze money out of trailer park trash...

I got a fellow right now that is fighting me over
950 bucks.....

He was my best buddy while the kitchen equipment..
water heater and basin pump were being installed,

now that it is over you can hear the whine....begin..

he has had the bill for 35 days and I dont hear a complaint about the work till I call him......

first one of the basket strainers is not perfectly
on center in the sink.....told him no problem..


then he claims I did a half assed job running the icemaker
through the bottom of a number of kitcken cabinets and out the side of the cabinets to get to the fridge....

I told him that was normal procedure when you are on
a slab floor.... no other way to do it...


now he wants to claim I ruined his kitchen cabinets and set of drawers
that were pernamently bolted to the walls....by drilling a small hole through
the very back corner of them.........

He stood there and watched me install this icemaker line too.....

then I asked very politely asked him how many times he was going to stand on his
head ...pull those drawers out ....and look at the copper pipe running along
the back corner behind those bottom drawers..

and I would gladly paint the little copper pipe black...it that would
get him to pay his bill.


he did not like those remarks..either.


basically now he wants to play the

"take 150 off the bill and make me happy" game...

you just got to get used to this....from people..


I am going back out on Monday morning to tangle
with this fellow.....and try to appease him but I already feel


I will most likely have to do a mecahnics lien on this fellow


]

 

[GrumpyPlumber]

I had a customer hassle me over a lousy $25, after the job was done.
Stood there and insisted I'd made enough and 25 wouldn't hurt me.
25 is chump change, I think it was for either of us...it seemed like it was a thrill to try to beat me out of it, so I refused...finally I just said "Look, I don't negotiate after the fact...either pay all or keep your money and pay me in court later along with all admin fee's"
Did I care about the 25...no.
It was the principle.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

the principle

Good point you have here Grumpy......
and you are absolutely 100% right...

but the time you waste is not worth it

Back in the 80s I had a felllow that would take them to court for me
so I would not have to waste my time over it.... he would charge
me 35% of the bill.....ok....I could live with that...


he usuallly took in to court about 40 different cases at one time so I suppose he did ok overall....


Here is a little trick I liked to play on these DEAD-BEATS that made it all worth while...

I would tell my collectioin guy to make my $75 dollar court case the VERY LAST CASE he would put before the judge....

the fellow would take a day off work, (if he had a job that is)
and have to be at the small claims court by 9am,



and then he would have to sit through about 3 hours
of different cases........

then at about 11:45 his case
would finally come up........

and I would have my collection guy tell the Judge that we need a
two week continuance becasue he had misplaced a few papers........


boy ...that would really make those fellows mad...LOL


but it really made it worth giveing him that 35% fee.......


its the little things like this that make my job so much fun

 

[GrumpyPlumber]

Mark, I know a guy that wound up going all the way with a mechanics lien.
He got every dime plus legal and admin fee's. (his time for paperwork and research)
We're not just sitting ducks...there are laws to protect us. (at least in my state there are)

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

I sit here with a western union money order for $141, I kid you not.

I'd say that small trip to the courthouse was well worth the $25 the default customer paid to get this check right.

Only 2 bad checks in 4 years and I got my money out of both, not bad.

The county attorney's office called the next morning to see if payment was made. Somebody at the shop told me the guy dropped off the money order in crutches. I guess somebody broke his legs for not paying his bills before me.

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Another one, $400 this time

But now that I know of the effectiveness and rate of success that bad check program offers.....I'm not even going to sweat it.


This was for a shower valve replacement whereby the homeowner broke it off in the wall.

He's got 5 kids, 1 on the way and 3 dogs.


I'm not even going to call to let them make the check good. I'm just following standard procedure like I should. Don't want to hear excuses...



EDIT 9-21-07


Started getting frantic calls this morning from the above.........demanding that I meet with them to pay me. ???

This was day 10 and after day 10 it gets filed as a summons to appear in court for said bad check.


I gave the pregnant woman a little coupon book......showed her what my second business will be here next year and talked to her candidly for 45 minutes about anything and everything.

No hard feelings and I'm glad for the outcome. That bad check program though is terrific!!!!!

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Victim of my own circumstance

And I'm taking my camera,

going to video my computer screen,

and I'm going to you tube to show the world


how you can load a second banking account on paypal, tick the box to use that new banking account and make a payment to anyone, "thinking" you just made a payment with your new banking account.



What "doesn't" happen is there's no warning or default page showing that the new banking account you just set up and think you're about to send money with CANNOT be used without being verified which is a 3-5 day process.

I ticked the box on my page to send money, it gave me two options of which one to use and ticked the new one. I sent the money and sent me a confirmation email.

What it DIDN'T tell me was that it defaulted to my primary banking account, not advising me that what I clicked was not sufficient for the transaction until I followed the steps.

I can repeat this on paypal and I'm going to show the world that if you're not careful, you'll end up in my boat:


Withdrew my bank account 3 grand today>>>>

The account I set up and moved money across had plenty for the transaction,

the backup primary did not.

I turned white as a ghost when I got declined at a hardware store, thinking I had over $2500 in that account.....thinking I had someone steal from me.

It was worse, paypal took money from my primary which started my tailspin.

As of right now, 3 items have been returned, $280 worth of fees and climbing throughout the day. I instantly shot a few grand into the account to try to stop the bleeding but I feel that the damage is done.

One check is hanging out there which will cost me $50 in fees; going to politely ask them to run the check again and I'll pay the fee in kind fashion.


I'm finding out that you should never run big numbers through paypal, the ease of paying by sending money by email address has just become one really bad learning experience.


I'll remember this thread when I produce that you tube video. I'm sure it will get much attention and paypal will FIX their effing blunder on their system.

It should instantly red flag/stop the transaction so you can't send money on a unconfirmed bank account, which is exactly what it did without me being notified that it was happening.

The power of you tube will soon be someone's thorn in their side real soon.




Before anyone asks/recommends I haven't been using paypal until recently and it had been years since I set my account up. So basically it was dormant all these years. Of course ignorance is bliss but I wasn't aware that I had to do a bank confirmation. Forgot that altogether. When I added the account, it never asked me to when I made a payment, it actually gave me two options of which one I wanted to use. How is that fair to the unsuspecting........

 

[Cookie]

YIKES, I didn't know that could happen. I use pay pal. Hmm, food for thought here. Thanks for revealing this to us. Let us know what happens here.

 

[hj]

?

15 minutes and a supply line on a saturday afternoon less than 1 mile from the shop, $91 and off I go.

$91.00 labor and materials for a Saturday job? When are you going to file for bankruptcy?

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

When are you going to file for bankruptcy?

Bold Print hj, bold print


Apparently I've mastered how to make more money and do less work, figuring there was a torn rotator cuff injury and a second business started last year.


After all these flat rate/hourly discussions on numerous boards I've surmised what I'm going to do.......mix them!


$150 show up fee, this covers all repairs/insurance/tire wear, fuel consumption/brake pedal grease/steering wheel fluid/windshield wipers.

$300 for the first hour, this gives the customer all the satisfaction in the world that I'm here to make money, and by the way fix your plumbing, I got bills maam.

I'll sacrifice my hard work to allow a rate reduction of $250 an hour after the first hour, this should calm the harsh feelings my customers might have.

I am, almighty powerful plumber ​