Brass to copper to brass

[diyPat]

The drain pipe from our upstairs bathroom was leaking. We had to open the ceiling in the bathroom below it to see the problem. The drain above has a brass 90* turn from vertical to horizontal, then a copper horizontal piece sweated in. The horizontal distance spanned by the copper is about 4.5 inches, then is sweated to another brass 90* bend to continue the vertical drop. The copper section is rotted along that whole 4.5 inch span. I've done a lot of DIY plumbing, but I need some advice on what to do with this.

Thanks for any input.

 

[Taylorjm]

Interesting. It's hard to tell unless you back up some to see if you could replace what looks like a shower/tub drain with a pvc one, and replace the brass and copper with pvc. It also looks like the brass piece on the left may be a tee of some sort? Really hard to tell, need more pictures to really decide what I would do.

It's beside the point, but I don't think I've ever seen 1-1/2 copper disintegrate like that before.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[diyPat]

Interesting. It's hard to tell unless you back up some to see if you could replace what looks like a shower/tub drain with a pvc one, and replace the brass and copper with pvc. It also looks like the brass piece on the left may be a tee of some sort? Really hard to tell, need more pictures to really decide what I would do.

It's beside the point, but I don't think I've ever seen 1-1/2 copper disintegrate like that before.

taylorjm - I think it's 3 inch copper. The brass bend on the right side comes from the toilet flange above. The copper piece seems to span a 4.5 inch distance to the brass T that picks up the tub drain, and then connects to a brass downward bend on the left to the main drain.

P.S. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Reach4]

That is not from a dissimilar metals thing. That is corrosion from the inside out.

1. Does your DIY plumbing include chemical drain cleaners? I am not saying that would cause this.
2. What is the pH of your water?
3. What feeds that section-- just a toilet, or what?
4. How much space is below and above the failed pipe?

One thing that can contribute to this is "if it's yellow, let it mellow."

 

[diyPat]

Never used any drain cleaner chemicals on any pipes here. That section drains just the toilet. There is a couple inches of space above that pipe and the pipe is almost touching a copper supply line just below it. Don't know the ph. The boys in the house do "let it mellow". Any advice for a fix?

 

[Chucky_ott]

You might want to verify the integrity of that copper supply line too. You would not want that to burst.

 

[Reach4]

Never used any drain cleaner chemicals on any pipes here. That section drains just the toilet. There is a couple inches of space above that pipe and the pipe is almost touching a copper supply line just below it. Don't know the ph. The boys in the house do "let it mellow". Any advice for a fix?

I would not go as far as offering advice on this. I might admit to what I think I might do. I am not a plumber. I might do things on my house that a plumber could get in trouble for doing, if I think it does not cause a safety hazard.

I might try wrapping with some tape. Self-fusing silicone tape is not cheap, and that would probably be best covered with something else.

I might try to find a flex coupling that is the right diameter and long enough. The slit long-ways what will become the top. It would be possible to use a banded coupler. Those bands usually separate. The rubber and bands would be grabbing the surviving bronze? fittings, rather than compressing on that eaten-away copper.

There is undoubtedly a right way to do the fix. I am thinking along these lines: If that is an end-of-the-line closet (toilet) flange in the right part of your photo, Get a long reach digital caliper. Harbor Freight 63714. Measure the OD on the surviving fitting. Find a coupling, or post the dimension here for a suggestion. He might also point out that if this failed, there may be downstream copper that is ready to fail, so converting more stuff to plastic now may well be a good idea. You seem to have pretty good access.

With coupler and other stuff in hand, saw away the exposed left edge of the bad copper. Use the coupler to put in a new PVC (unless you live in ABS territory) closet bend and closet flange. The selection of what that takes should be after you have identified the available coupler.

A skilled plumber who does much copper may well be able to melt out the old failed pipe, and solder something in there. For DIY, I am afraid there is potential for fire, because heating up that fitting with homeowner grade tools might take too long.

And maybe mandate more flushing on your other toilet.

 

[Taylorjm]

taylorjm - I think it's 3 inch copper. The brass bend on the right side comes from the toilet flange above. The copper piece seems to span a 4.5 inch distance to the brass T that picks up the tub drain, and then connects to a brass downward bend on the left to the main drain.

P.S. Thanks for the reply.

Ok, thanks. I thought it was coming from a bathtub, not a toilet. You don't see many 3" drain lines from copper and brass. It was expensive and really required someone that knew how to sweat fittings that big.

So, we probably already know what your asking, so just come out with it! lol. Aren't you going to ask if you can cut out that copper with a sawzall, put in a small piece of 3" pvc and attach it with 3" fernco clamps on each side using the outside of the brass fittings to make the seal with the clamps? The OD of that copper is 3-1/8". The od of 3" pvc is 3.5". The OD of those brass fittings is probably pretty close to the 3.5" od of the pvc pipe.

 

[Taylorjm]

Reach made a very good point though. If that piece of copper was eaten away, was it just because there was always some toilet water sitting in that spot? Or is there potential for the rest of the copper in line to be eaten away too? Hard choice. You said it's an upstairs bathroom, so I'm sure replacing that copper main drain wouldn't be easy. Do you put on some rubber clamps to the brass fittings? It may work fine and last a long time, or whatever was eating away at the copper might eat away at the rubber too.

 

[diyPat]

Wow - thanks for all the responses. I was thinking about sawing out the copper and replacing with rubber tubing with hose clamps to the brass fittings on each side. Then also replacing the corroded inflow pipe with new copper. But before that I have a plumber coming to give me an estimate on repair and see what he thinks.

 

[diyPat]

The job is done. The plumber sweated out the old copper and replaced with a new piece, and also a new flange for the upstairs toilet. Cleaned off the inflow pipe and it was not damaged, and not in danger of being dripped on anymore, so he left that as is. Don't have the bill yet but the estimate was $1100. He was here for about 5 hours or so.

 

[Taylorjm]

Dang, $200/hr plumbers. I think I can get an attorney cheaper than that!

 

[diyPat]

Yeah, I know!

UPDATE:

The bill came to $660 - not quite as bad as I thought. I'm so glad that nightmare is over. Now I just have to fix the hole in the ceiling.