Jeff H Young
In the Trades
some one needs to approve the cost to mitigate this and sounds like no one cares or has deep enough budget to look into this maybe it sounds like a petty complaint
As there has been no lab analysis of the particles, we can only speculate on their source.
Regardless of the remaining service life, if the exsisting anode rod is reacting in the water to cause particles to be released, then replacing the anode rod with one made from another material may resolve the issue. Alternate anode materials exsist as one type is not appropriate for all water conditions. The reaction may not be with the water itself but could be due to the Chloramine (chlorine and ammonia) added to Toronto water instead of plain Chlorine.
With regard to cleaning, it is generally simpler and less costly to remove contaminants and minerals from the water that cause scaling and sediment before they enter the water heater. A water softener can soften the incoming water to remove calcium and Magnesium minerals that mainly cause scale accumulation. A filtration system utilizing Catalytic Carbon is typically utilized to remove Chloramine as well as many other chemicals and contaminants .
Unless a majority of unit owners including Directors are recognizing the issue themselves and are demanding for the problem to be corrected at point of entry, your condo BoD is unlikely to consider addressing an issue they perceive is not an actual problem that is needed to be addressed by the condo corporation.
You might have better luck getting the building management to filter the hot water with a special filter. They would want a 3-valve bypass and a pair of pressure gauges. They would want the the filter and other hot water stuff insulated, but they would want to be able to change the cartridge.
A cartridge filter has the side effect of diagnosing how much stuff they are dealing with.
People in general have a built-in tendency to see patterns, even if they are not there. Is there an access panel that would let you see your lines to the tub, as discussed in #12?
If each PRV is to regulate each floor's hot water pressure, perhaps the particles are due to a breakdown of internal components within the PRV. If the PRV for your floor is only affected, you could then expect the debris to be apparent only within the units on your floor, not the entire building. I suspect the PRV is not the cause as you said the issue temporarily improved after the WH and anode rod was cleaned.another option is to install a filter where the PRV is for the whole floor.
Would there be a PRV for the hot?If each PRV is to regulate each floor's hot water pressure, perhaps the particles are due to a breakdown of internal components within the PRV.
I wouldn't expect so but I do anticipate there will need to be a method to balance the pressure between the Hot vs Cold water supplies on each floor. Depending on which floor Ty01 resides on, pressure balancing could be performed by booster pumps and valves vs a PRV on the hot.Would there be a PRV for the hot?
I wouldn't expect so but I do anticipate there will need to be a method to balance the pressure between the Hot vs Cold water supplies on each floor. Depending on which floor Ty01 resides on, pressure balancing could be performed by booster pumps and valves vs a PRV on the hot.
A pump could also be the source of the debris but as Ry01 mentioned the plumber suggested installing a filter specifically where the PRV is located for each floor, and as this issue is affecting only the hot water, I'm assuming the plumber knows how the building's hot water system is plumbed.
I expect you note that the toilet is not fed by hot water.Also I looked at the toilet tanks in my unit and I noticed there's a lot of black debris/sediments.
I expect you note that the toilet is not fed by hot water.
I would consider installing a whole-house cartridge filter for your unit. One that takes a 4.5x20 inch cartridge should have low backpressure, and will be a readily available cartridge.Thoughts on this?
I would consider installing a whole-house cartridge filter for your unit. One that takes a 4.5x20 inch cartridge should have low backpressure, and will be a readily available cartridge.
Ideally there will be a 3-valve bypass around the filter, because otherwise, a filter failure would mean no water. Maybe use a PENTEK-DGD-5005-20. https://www.pentair.com/content/dam...glish/310061-pentek-dgd-series-spec-sheet.pdf
After a year, see what you collected. A place to hook a pressure gauge before and after can be useful to see if there is significant pressure drop. Obviously this will not help if the source of black stuff is inside of your unit.
These black specs has nothing to do with mineral deposits in the water heater. Until there is a filter after the water heater its seems it's all a guess. I have one bathroom sink faucet I'll get black specs and it is from the aerator. I can take a tooth brush and loosen the material. Sometimes I'll see a piece sticking out at the spout. I believe it is a harmless mold since they are soft and doesn't smear. No other faucet does it since they are different. All lines are the same. CPVC and flex lines from the stop valves.
Do you see them in the dishwasher?
The dishwasher is not going to have a place for stuff to collect, right?I've been cleaning the aerator pretty often. I noticed the sediments in the aerator is not exactly the same as the specks I see in the tub. The sediments in the aerator don't smudge/smear. Also a lot of times, I won't even see anything in the tub until I drain the water. That's when I see tiny black dots/smudges in the bathtub.
I don't notice this in the dishwasher.
Show a photo of the shut off valve, and nearby piping, for the condo. That would give a good indication.Is that something that can be installed in a condo unit? I'm trying to get management to once and for all fix the problem so I just want to know their idea of replacing a bathtub faucet will do anything.
The dishwasher is not going to have a place for stuff to collect, right?
I forget-- did you test that this stuff burns, like bits of rubber would, when you hold a propane torch flame on it? If the stuff smears, I expect it would be affected by the heat.
Show a photo of the shut off valve, and nearby piping, for the condo. That would give a good indication.
If you don't have your own shutoff, then I don't expect that it would be practical to install the filter.
Incidentally, flushing your WH might be helpful. Run a garden hose to a toilet. Open the drain valve full, and let a minute or so of maximum flow with the pressure on. Check the toilet bowl to see if stuff got collected. This probably needs somebody to hold the hose at the toilet, and somebody to operate the drain valve.
How many water heaters? One in every unit, or one for the building?We are also having the same problem in our building but it is about 25% of the units reporting (maybe more of course). It definitely gets worse after a water shutdown and re-pressurization. Currently the plumber says it's from the valves going into each of the units because those are the only source of rubber but it seems amazing that it happens after a system re-pressurization largely and to so many unique units. Any further guess?
This is awkward, but...
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