Backwashing Filter after Chlorinator?

[Flowriduh]

My current setup is as follow:


Well Head –> water main pipe –> 1st Filter backwashing multi-media sulfur reducing filter –> water softener –> pellet chlorinator –> 2nd filter newly purchased Centaur Catalytic Carbon Backwashing Filter –> house


1.) I understand Centaur filter is designed to automatically flush/backwash itself. This is to remove the excess chlorine, sulfur, etc…. in my setup won’t the Centaur filter just be backwashing with Chlorinated water? Any problem with this?

2.) How often would you recommend I set the backwash? I understand this is trial and error, but given the above question I wonder if I should backwash less frequently since I am essentially using chlorinated water to wash away excess chlorine…

3.) Upon completion of install do I need to do a manual regeneration or should I just run the water in the house for a while to “clear everything out”?


Thanks for your help.

 

[GTOwagon]

Why isn't the chlorinator the very first thing after the water enters the house so that the chemical just the job of oxidizing the minerals and contaminants? It should go ... well head-water main pipe- chlorinator-120 gallon CONTACT TANK- media filter-carbon filter-(optional 4x20 cartridge filter with 5 micron poly refillable filter to catch anything the first two back flushing filters missed, charcoal grains and lose media and or any other bits and specks) THEN Softener and then finally to use in the house.

This is what I would do, also PERHAPS I would use liquid chlorine and or hydrogen peroxide depending on your water conditions. That is my two cents. I am no big expert by any means, I just think your ordering is out of whack.

 

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[Mikey]

What GTOwagon said.

 

[ditttohead]

What is a backwashing multimedia sulfur reducing filter? We need a lot more information on your equipment.

 

[Flowriduh]

Why isn't the chlorinator the very first thing after the water enters the house so that the chemical just the job of oxidizing the minerals and contaminants? It should go ... well head-water main pipe- chlorinator-120 gallon CONTACT TANK- media filter-carbon filter-(optional 4x20 cartridge filter with 5 micron poly refillable filter to catch anything the first two back flushing filters missed, charcoal grains and lose media and or any other bits and specks) THEN Softener and then finally to use in the house.

This is what I would do, also PERHAPS I would use liquid chlorine and or hydrogen peroxide depending on your water conditions. That is my two cents. I am no big expert by any means, I just think your ordering is out of whack.

I am using a Model 400 In-line pellet chlorinator which has to be installed after the pressure tank for it to function properly. In your suggested setup the chlorinator would be before the pressure tank.

On a side note, I have had great success with using H202 poured directly into my softener to remove sulfur smell. I’ve often wondered if I could remove the chlorine pellets in the chlorinator, clean it out, and then use peroxide instead. I can get 7% H202 for a great price. I’m not sure if it would work well in this type of “chlorinator”, but in theory I don’t see why it wouldn’t.

 

[SuperGreg]

The chlorinator can go directly after the pressure tank, followed by a contact tank then the rest of the system. This is usually recommended to avoid damaging the rubber membrane of the pressure tank, but in my case I have the metering pump injecting before the pressure tank because it simply turns on with the well pump. But it seems unusual to me to place the chlorination after the rest of the filtration.

 

[ditttohead]

The inline 400 is supposed to work off a differential/air pressure discharge... you would have to read the instructions fully to understand the principle behind the way it operate but... I'm not to confident they work as well as the instructions state but I really like the idea behind it.

Using a proper chemical injection design with a peristaltic pump is preferred and it can go after the tank assuming it is properly controlled, typically with a meter.

 

[GTOwagon]

I think whether your chlorination is before or after the pressure tank isn't a huge deal, excepting to say when injecting liquid chlorine or peroxide, if you inject in front of the pressure tank, you do have a better contact time and consistency. The diaphragms are not rubber but heavy butyl that withsatand chlorine nowadays. I prefer before but if you have a large enough contact tank I doubt it is terrible to have it go in afterwards. Other factors like solution strength are more important. Ithere generally isn't a reason why it can't be hooked up to the pressure switch and still inject just after the pressure tank. I know nothing about the pellet style systems.

 

[Bannerman]

if you inject in front of the pressure tank,

Another potential problem with injecting an oxidant before the pressure tank is sediment accumulation. Since the addition of an oxidizer causes ferrous iron, manganese etc to commence oxidizing to a solid ferric state, an accumulation of sediment can start to occur in the pressure tank and forward. Since the pump pressure switch is located directly after the pressure tank, sediment blockage can prevent the pressure switch from operating properly, potentially resulting in the pump not turning on when needed, or not turning off.

As a contact tank typically includes provision for sediment elimination, that location or slightly before is usually the preferred location for adding an oxidant.

 

[GTOwagon]

I have found that when I drain my pressure tank, there is no sediment, and that it is forcefully flushed out on a constant basis into the contact tank. Actually the turbidity and sediment that comes in to the house straight from the well unoxidozed left much more sediment in my tank before I injected chlorine in that location. Now the tank is pristine, as things floculated and oxidized and get pushed out into contact. When I drain the bottom off my 120 gallon contact tank, it is there that I find sediment. What do other here prefer or think is the result? Almost everyone I know has injection upstream of the pressure tank. You are the second person I ever met who holds to this theory and the other one bases his on deterioration of the pressure tank bladder. This is always an interesting debate

 

[Reach4]

GTOwagon, I know that you know that it is going to depend on the water whether injection before the pressure tank works nicely. For your area, it works nicely. As you pointed out, if you can do it, injecting before the pressure tank does not require proportional injection or flow rate sensing.

I don't know what you would look at in raw water test results to predict good success with before-the-pressure-tank injection.

 

[GTOwagon]

I wouldn't advocate for a filter in front of the pressure tank, and I think most of you all wouldn't either, but what about unoxidozed sand and other debris going into a pressure tank? Wouldn't that also do what Bannerman described? I don't know how it is an issue that anyof it is in the pressure tank when you cannot keep it from getting into the pressure tank in the first place?

 

[Reach4]

I wouldn't advocate for a filter in front of the pressure tank, and I think most of you all wouldn't either, but what about unoxidozed sand and other debris going into a pressure tank? Wouldn't that also do what Bannerman described? I don't know how it is an issue that anyof it is in the pressure tank when you cannot keep it from getting into the pressure tank in the first place?

For those, you need to use systems made to go before the pressure tank. No cartidge. Just centrifugal force and gravity. I feel a little odd about the separation between the pressure switch and pressure tank, so big pipes would be needed for that space. You can only tolerate a bit of pressure drop between the pressure switch and pressure tank.

Warning, some * might come by and claim there is no such thing as centrifugal force.

See http://www.lakos.com/groundwater.htm

 

[GTOwagon]

But for all the folks who have no filter there would have sediment to some degree. Some worse than others. How would it be worse if chlorine were introduced?

 

[Bannerman]

Unoxidized ferrous iron (clear water iron) within the well and pumped into the pressure tank, is clear and remains suspended within the water. The addition of an oxidant starts the conversion to ferric iron which then starts to create solids which precipitate out from the water as rust. That precipitate consists of fine particles which combine and stick together as a heavy sludge which may block off pipes and can be difficult to eliminate especially if collecting in a difficult to access or unintended location. The quantity of sediment is conditional on the intial iron quantity.

As mentioned, water conditions vary. What you maybe able to do with your water situation, does not make that same procedure applicable to everyone. Another person wishing to attempt treatment similar to you have done, should be aware of the potential of what may occur.

If sand, silt or other debris is being introduced into the plumbing system from the well, then precautionary steps such as a sediment filter should be incorporated. Just because something should be done, doesn't mean everyone does it, with varying degrees of problems as a result.

 

[Reach4]

But for all the folks who have no filter there would have sediment to some degree. Some worse than others.

True.

How would it be worse if chlorine were introduced?

It would increase the sediment some, but maybe it would still have less sediment than somebody else who has no injection.

An increase in sediment would commonly be caused by ferrous iron turning to ferric iron. That does not mean that will gum up the works, as your experience shows.

 

[Flowriduh]

My thread got high jacked BUT I am happy to report the following:

Clearly my original setup did not make any sense-

Well Head –> water main pipe –> 1st Filter backwashing multi-media sulfur reducing filter –> water softener –> pellet chlorinator –> 2nd filter newly purchased Centaur Catalytic Carbon Backwashing Filter –> house

I have since made some rearrangements and found a way to get the pellet chlorinator after the air tank and in the right position as follows

(I am on a jet pump system)
Well Head-->water main pipe-->Jet Pump-->Air Tank-->Pellet Chlorinator-->Chemical Retention Tank-->Centaur backwashing filter-->All-in-One Gen 5 Hybrid filter-->Water Softener-->House.

My water has never been better.

 

[ditttohead]

Nice, and that setup makes more sense. The only thing that is not "by the book" is the chlorine tablet system but... and I say this sincerely... the chlorine tablet system is supposed to be before the tank... it is in the manual but my field experience tells me it will work either way just fine. Once I read the whole instruction guide the way the chlorine system works on paper is really great, but in the real world... I am not so convinced for a host of reasons. I will say that with the chlorine pellet design a carbon tank is almost always mandatory.

 

[GTOwagon]

My thread got high jacked BUT I am happy to report the following:

Clearly my original setup did not make any sense-

Well Head –> water main pipe –> 1st Filter backwashing multi-media sulfur reducing filter –> water softener –> pellet chlorinator –> 2nd filter newly purchased Centaur Catalytic Carbon Backwashing Filter –> house

I have since made some rearrangements and found a way to get the pellet chlorinator after the air tank and in the right position as follows

(I am on a jet pump system)
Well Head-->water main pipe-->Jet Pump-->Air Tank-->Pellet Chlorinator-->Chemical Retention Tank-->Centaur backwashing filter-->All-in-One Gen 5 Hybrid filter-->Water Softener-->House.

My water has never been better.

The discussion was not so much to hijack but to interject some discussion on how you sho use arrange your components. Please don't look at it as stealing your thunder, just trying to get a consensus as to how it should be done. I am never a final word on anything except GTOs, hard rock guitarists and WWII history, pretty much.