AS 4370A keeps running

[NJ6]

We have an American Standard 4370A, and after flushing it frequently (not always) keeps running until I lower my hand into the water in the tank (presumably causing a critical amount of water to enter the overflow tube) and pull it out again, a few seconds after which it stops. I've Googled and done a search on this forum for the 4370A, and come up with nothing. I emailed the Mississauga, Ontario branch of the manufacturer, and received no reply. In case it isn't obvious, I'm not a plumber. Any ideas? Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

We have an American Standard 4370A, and after flushing it frequently (not always) keeps running until I lower my hand into the water in the tank (presumably causing a critical amount of water to enter the overflow tube) and pull it out again, a few seconds after which it stops. I've Googled and done a search on this forum for the 4370A, and come up with nothing. I emailed the Mississauga, Ontario branch of the manufacturer, and received no reply. In case it isn't obvious, I'm not a plumber. Any ideas? Thanks.

Keeps running... does that mean intermittently or continuously?

If intermittently, you may lack the clip holding the end of the refill tube above the overflow tube, or your water level may be so high that the water climbs by capillary action up the clip.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[NJ6]

Keeps running... does that mean intermittently or continuously?

If intermittently, you may lack the clip holding the end of the refill tube above the overflow tube, or your water level may be so high that the water climbs by capillary action up the clip.

Thanks for the reply and the suggestion, but no, it's continuous. I've noticed that at a certain point a high-pitched sort of bubbling sound appears that wasn't there before. Then I immerse my hand to well over my wrist, leave it there a few seconds, withdraw it, and wait. A few seconds later it stops and goes quiet.

 

[Jadnashua]

The fill valve has a float in it. The higher the water gets, the more pressure it can put on the shutoff. By placing your hand in the water, you raise the level, putting more pressure on the shutoff because the float rises. On some valves, you can replace that seal. On others, you may have to replace the whole fill valve. That's a relatively simple thing to do. Depending on the age of the toilet, it might be under warranty. Because a toilet fill valve can waste a significant amount of water, you should consider turning the supply valve off in between uses until you can fix it. I'm not sure what valves are readily available in Canada. In the USA, I'd suggest a Korky valve or maybe a Fluidmaster. The Korky tends to be a bit quieter in operation than the Fluidmaster, but both of them have replaceable seals that don't require tools and are pretty simple to replace when they do wear out. Both of those companies have videos showing how to do this. At the most, you might need a pair of pliers to loosen, tighten the nut that holds it in place. It's a good idea to replace the supply line if it is flexible (a hose) at the same time as moving it around can sometimes cause it to fail.

 

[NJ6]

Jim, I don't know whether the fact that it's an AS 4730A automatically indicates that it's an Optum Vormax system inside it, but if not, then I should have pointed that out. A search for references to the Optum Vormax on this forum produces several pages, of course, and I haven't ploughed through all of them, but some of what I've seen so far corroborates the view of it as potentially a 'jinx toilet' on this site:

https://toiletfound.com/american-standard-optum-vormax-toilet-review/

Does the fact that it's an Optum Vormax affect your advice? It was installed in July 2016, the warranty was registered, and since I started posting here I've read about AS sending free replacement parts to other warranty customers -- the most common complaint, though, seems to be running when it hasn't been flushed, which isn't the case here -- so I'm planning on phoning them this week. I was hoping for an email reply to my earlier email enquiry, but didn't get one.

 

[WJcandee]

First: Relax. This isn't anything complicated. There are basically two possible causes of the problem, both of which are simple to fix by a non-plumber.

Do us a favor and take a picture of the inside of the tank looking down from the top. We have diagnosed many things just from looking at a photo of the tank; in fact I did one the other day (refill hose was kinked).

We'll help you. Don't bother calling AS. Just post a photo and we'll give you a suggestion. Unless $10 or so in parts is a challenge to you to afford (for some folks it is), I would just eschew the manufacturer and the delays inherent in waiting for them to mail you parts and instead fix it among us. If you would feel better about free parts, then feel free to order them. But let's first figure out what the problem is so you can tell them authoritatively what's broken.

 

[NJ6]

First: Relax. This isn't anything complicated. There are basically two possible causes of the problem, both of which are simple to fix by a non-plumber.

Do us a favor and take a picture of the inside of the tank looking down from the top. We have diagnosed many things just from looking at a photo of the tank; in fact I did one the other day (refill hose was kinked).

We'll help you. Don't bother calling AS. Just post a photo and we'll give you a suggestion. Unless $10 or so in parts is a challenge to you to afford (for some folks it is), I would just eschew the manufacturer and the delays inherent in waiting for them to mail you parts and instead fix it among us. If you would feel better about free parts, then feel free to order them. But let's first figure out what the problem is so you can tell them authoritatively what's broken.

Well, I appreciate that, but as prehistoric as it may sound, I don't have a camera. I only use my phone for phone calls, and as far as I know if I start using the photo app (or whatever it's called), my monthly bill goes up. It looks pretty much like the one in the photo half way down the page at that link I supplied. I don't see any kinks in anything. If I can get someone in who can take the pic, I'll do so and will certainly post it. The ten bucks isn't a problem. It's not a big worry for me; it's actually my mother's toilet. Again, thanks for the assurance of help, and I'll take you up on it if and when I can arrange the photo.

 

[WJcandee]

Since the $10 isn't a big deal, I would just go out and buy a Korky 528MP Maxperformance Platinum fill valve. It's a 5 minute repair job for a plumber to change it out; it should be about 15 minutes for you. If you have a pair of channel locks, I find them helpful, but it may be possible to do the whole things with no tools if you have a decent grip with your hands. It's basically turn off the water to toilet, flush it as empty as you can get it, put a pan under where the hole in the china for the fill valve is (or a towel), unscrew the water hose from the fill valve, unscrew the fill valve retaining nut from the toilet, remove refill hose from overflow riser, remove old Fluidmaster, adjust new Korky to the right height, twist to lock, fit it through hole in toilet, tighten the retaining nut, screw water hose onto valve shaft, make sure Korky is locked in place, attach refill hose to clip and clip onto top of overflow riser, turn on water, done. You can fiddle with the refill volume adjuster if you want to maximize water savings.

Here's a Korky video on how to do it:

 

[NJ6]

Did that, wjcandee, though as you can see it has a slightly different name and -- as usual -- costs twice as much in Canada:

https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.quietfillplatinumfill-valve.1000838066.html

I notice that although it now doesn't keep running indefinitely, while the tank is refilling some water comes out from under the top part of the valve, the head as it were, and some also seems to dribble out of the refill adjuster dial. I don't remember it doing that before, and it doesn't look right to me, but I'm not sure it's wrong and don't know what to do about it if it is. Also, it's now necessary to hold the lever down until the bowl has completely emptied, or it won't, and that's new too. Obviously it would be preferable not to have to do that, but if that's what it takes to get it to work without having to hang around to make sure it stops, I suppose it's worth it. I may experiment some more with the refill adjuster dial tomorrow to see if it makes any difference.