Any advice on this roller coaster?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Ryan L, Jul 20, 2021.

  1. Ryan L

    Ryan L New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Hello, my name is Ryan and I'll apologize in advance for my first post/lack of proper plumbing terms. I'm a pencil pusher, not a plumber, but I have unfortunately been tasked with plumbing my 300+ year old New England colonial and am in desperate need of advice. I have been reading post after post and looking at diagram after diagram, so I have done my best to draw a diagram (attached). I was wondering if anyone might have any feedback looking at the design that you think might send my roller coaster off the rails. The diagram is exactly what I have dry-fit as of today. The house is 300+ yrs old with giant timbers in the way of everything, so everything has to be done the hard way. I have removed 100% of the interior plumbing to be replaced new. It is 2.5 baths, 2 full baths directly above the 1/2 bath, all in one corner of the house. The 2 full baths are exact back-to-back copies of each other. Like I said, I'm not a plumber, but I dry-fit everything with a roller-coaster mindset. All 90's, both horizontal and vertical, are long sweep and all runs will be sloped 1/4" per ft. I wouldn't have used an AAV at the washer, but the 300 yr old timber-in-the-way issue prevents me from having a vent in any direction. I have two clean-outs included and I just realized I forgot to include them in the drawing. Any feedback you could provide on my design is greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read my post. -Ryan
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    RI uses IPC 2015.
    (drawing removed)
    1st floor sink wet vents toilet via santee. 2x2x1.5 Santee has 1.5 trap adapter in side port.

    If output of U of p-trap, thru the bend, to the santee all totals to 8 ft or less, no AAV needed for the laundry standpipe. Purple vent line through inverted santee is at least 6 inches higher than (the higher of (top of standpipe) and (rim of lavatory )).

    Two 45s can replace long sweeps if convienient.

    You will need a cleanout or so.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
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  4. Tuttles Revenge

    Tuttles Revenge In the Trades

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Looks mostly correct. The point where the 2 tubs join should use a Fixture Cross rather than double Wye. The vent needs to be clear in the horizontal path of the upper section of the trap arm. The first floor powder room was drawn as a horizontal wet vent, so no other fixtures from other floors can enter into that system, nor can the laundry. Those must connect downstream.

    **I see Reach4 and I were editing at the exact same time (jinx).. I like his idea for the first floor bathroom venting.
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2020
    Location:
    92346
    looks good but.... you have conflicting notes and pictures on the double lav fittings and for the double bath tubs. make sure you don't use wye type fittings on those. but have at it on the W/C it will function best
     
  6. Ryan L

    Ryan L New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Reach4, Tuttles Revenge, and Jeff, thank you very much for your valued input. Sorry it took me over a week to get my adjustments made. Tuttles Revenge, I like your horizontal runs. Unfortunately, the house was built in 1720 and the way the giant timber runs across that area, it just isn't possible. I have taken your advice and will join the two tubs with a Fixture Cross. Reach4, your design for venting the 1st floor toilet via the 1st floor sink is possible with my framing. I have redrawn my design and attached it below. I have added two cleanouts. The laundry run is only 30" in length. All of the plumbing is very close together. Due to the way the house timbers are structured and limited space below, I really don't really have any other way to redesign the horizontal turns and runs. I mocked-up my drawing above the exact location where the plumbing will be located (under the joists). Under the joists is enough room for the 4" sloped, that's it. The only horizontal area that will be accessible once everything is closed up is highlighted in green. The soil stack cleanout will be accessible by a hidden door in the 1st floor half-bath. The house never had a washing machine or septic tank until 2018. The plumbing that was uncovered was sketchy. The only cleanout was accessible through an upper kitchen cabinet and had been labeled "s--t pipe".

    Plumb design.jpg Plumb design - 2.jpg

    This is just a mock-up picture before I posted my original posting. It just gives an idea of how close together everything is. The tub drain stack is now 2", not 4" as pictured.

    IMG_9099 (1).jpeg IMG_9102.jpeg
     
  7. Mr tee

    Mr tee In the Trades

    Joined:
    May 3, 2020
    Location:
    Montana
    A drain line from upstairs cannot be used to vent a fixture from a lower floor. The blue lines are wrong.
     
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  8. hj

    hj Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    The blue line MUST be removed
     
  9. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]

    Waste goes down, venting goes up. They don't mix.

    [​IMG]

    Removed a san cross in a 60's home and came up with a wye for the second toilet, ran two vents and tied those together at 42".
    This way neither toilet affects the other one when flushed.
     
  10. wwhitney

    wwhitney Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2019
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    On the laundry, you show a combo, but since the vertical connection there is the vent for the standpipe trap arm, it would need to be a san-tee. [Although in the drawing below, it is no longer the vent takeoff, so it could stay a combo.]

    As the others have commented, your downstairs venting is not correct, a dry vent from downstairs can't also be a drain from upstairs. I annotated your drawing to make all the dry vents green to help clarify the functions, and added in the necessary downstairs dry vent.

    The downstairs layout might be simplified if you move the laundry drain to join the 4" WC drain. Then its san-tee might be directly under the 2" vent stack for the downstairs. Not sure if that would actually be simpler.

    Cheers, Wayne


    Plumb design with vents.jpg
     
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  11. Ryan L

    Ryan L New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Plumb design.jpg Hi Wayne, I thought the exact same thing when I looked at it. The inverted tee wasn't making sense to me. I have made the change to match nearly exactly what you recommended. Thanks again. -Ryan
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
  12. wwhitney

    wwhitney Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2019
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    An upside down san-tee is a standard way to join two vents together, one horizontal and one vertical, with the combined vent rising vertically from there. But the drain from upstairs can't be a vent.

    Where you have two parallel pipes rising, and you join them at a height that both are vents, you could use an upside down san-tee and a 90, or a wye and a 45.

    What do you mean by "nearly" exactly? Note that the same issue with using the upstairs tub/lav drain as a vent for the downstairs lav exists with the laundry standpipe, so I drew the laundry vent takeoff as an upright combo on the horizontal trap arm, upstream of the san-tee or combo where the laundry drain joins the upstairs drain.

    Cheers, Wayne
     
  13. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Under IPC, when standpipe waste joins other waste, the pipe should be 3 inch or bigger.
     
  14. Ryan L

    Ryan L New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Hi Wayne, sorry about the "nearly" wording. I revised the layout to reflect your recommendation. Plumb design.jpg
     
  15. Mr tee

    Mr tee In the Trades

    Joined:
    May 3, 2020
    Location:
    Montana
    Ryan, I didn't mention this before but your coherent isometric drawing makes it much easier for us to give you accurate answers.
     
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  16. Ryan L

    Ryan L New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Mr. Tee, thank you for your help, and the compliment!
     
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