Aluminum Wire

Users who are viewing this thread

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,600
Reaction score
1,037
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
quote; Southwire SIMpull THHN[SUP]®[/SUP] cable with AlumaFlex[SUP]®[/SUP] conductors are primarily used in conduit and cable trays for services, feeders, and branch circuits in commercial or industrial applications as specified in the 2008 National Electrical Code.

That specification, "commercial or industrial applications", pretty much precludes a residential application. When I built my first home in this area, 40 years ago, the inspector initially had a problem with the aluminum conductors to the air conditioning. (I had done the rest of the house in conduit and copper wires. I reiterate, DOES your supply house STOCK "small gauge" aluminum wires?
 

JWelectric

Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Messages
2,608
Reaction score
21
Points
38
Location
North Carolina
I reiterate, DOES your supply house STOCK "small gauge" aluminum wires?

No but I can order the conductors to as small as #12

Type MC and AC cables come with an aluminum equipment grounding conductor as part of the cable assembly in any roll or spool you order today.

Once again using the NEC can you show me where it would be illegal to install aluminum conductors today?
Is this something special to your area or is it something the inspector prefers? If it is the latter then the inspector is way off base and could end him up in a courtroom.
 

JWelectric

Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Messages
2,608
Reaction score
21
Points
38
Location
North Carolina
I stand corrected.

I can buy from stock #8 SE-U or SE-R but it would take at least six weeks to receive any type of NM-B aluminum cable and at a great expense.

This does not mean that the installation of #12 would be a violation of the NEC.
 

Ballvalve

General Engineering Contractor
Messages
3,581
Reaction score
45
Points
48
Location
northfork, california
Installation of #12 aluminum would be a violation of common sense, and safety, installed carefully or by foot.

And I find large differences in the flexibility of large aluminum wire, so the mills are not telling the truth about the allloys if you say they all use the same metal.
 

JWelectric

Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Messages
2,608
Reaction score
21
Points
38
Location
North Carolina
Installation of #12 aluminum would be a violation of common sense, and safety, installed carefully or by foot.
Please explain this comment and if you don’t mind back it up with something other than speculation.

And I find large differences in the flexibility of large aluminum wire, so the mills are not telling the truth about the allloys if you say they all use the same metal.
I have been working with aluminum conductors for many years and have never run into this situation before. I wouldn’t be afraid to say that I have installed more aluminum conductors than you have ever saw.

What is manufacturer with all this differences in conductors?
Which supply house are you buying all these conductors from?
Is it possible that these conductors of the same size are from different time periods where one is the 3300 and the other is the newer 8800?
This happens from time to time when someone tries to install used equipment.

Never use a piece of electrical equipment over again unless it has been refurbished.
 

Rich B

DIY Senior Member
Messages
285
Reaction score
1
Points
16
Location
New Jersey
Aluminum wire was used in the 60's-70's as there was supposedly a shortage of copper. The stuff was junk. Working with it was tedious at best as the wire could not be bent much or it would break. And that is the reason aluminum wire has such a bad reputation and deservedly so......I worked as an electrician back then and had to work with this stuff and can tell you it was terrible.

The service entrance cables are often aluminum today and I see no problem with it. But I'd have nothing to do with a house wired with aluminum cable for individual circuits and it was from that era.........
 

JohnjH2o1

Plumbing Contractor for 49 years
Messages
1,188
Reaction score
13
Points
38
Location
Florida
Aluminum wire was used in the 60's-70's as there was supposedly a shortage of copper. The stuff was junk. Working with it was tedious at best as the wire could not be bent much or it would break. And that is the reason aluminum wire has such a bad reputation and deservedly so......I worked as an electrician back then and had to work with this stuff and can tell you it was terrible.

The service entrance cables are often aluminum today and I see no problem with it. But I'd have nothing to do with a house wired with aluminum cable for individual circuits and it was from that era.........

Thank you Rich. That is the answer to my to my original post. Some how this thing turned into a debate on aluminum wire which it was never meant to be. But it has been interesting reading. Maybe a new thread should be opened on the good and bad of aluminum wire.

Thanks to all that have responded

John
 

Ballvalve

General Engineering Contractor
Messages
3,581
Reaction score
45
Points
48
Location
northfork, california
Originally Posted by ballvalve

Installation of #12 aluminum would be a violation of common sense, and safety, installed carefully or by foot.


I think the previous guys did that. But as an example [again , I think] What do you reach for when you want to wrap or tie something up in the shop? Aluminum wire? Good for two wraps and its in pieces.

Have copper holding electrical cords, and they can last for 20 years of wraps and abuse. Aluminum is for big cables, beer cans and covering turkeys.

Just my opinion, but I would rather use a harbor freight multi meter than wire my house in aluminum 12 gauge wire. It IS useful if hammered on one end for making great toothpicks, however.

For such a stickler for safety as you, Its surprising you defend small household al wire. And I dont have a spectograph handy, but I assure you that I find various rigidity in AL wire. Could well be that a [few thousand?] containers from China that never got opened, and the wire was made from old linoleum edging.

The most interesting wire I have is from 1880's or so - picked it up in the desert along a missing narrow gauge railway. Its copper coated half hard steel, and nothing like it seems to be made anymore. Probably telegraph wire.
 
Last edited:

Rich B

DIY Senior Member
Messages
285
Reaction score
1
Points
16
Location
New Jersey
Thank you Rich. That is the answer to my to my original post. Some how this thing turned into a debate on aluminum wire which it was never meant to be. But it has been interesting reading. Maybe a new thread should be opened on the good and bad of aluminum wire.

Thanks to all that have responded

John


Your welcome and almost every post turns into a rediculous string of posts from two sides with differing opinions or experiences or other issues....

I worked as an electrician for a local guy right out of high school, 1966-1968.......I learned from the owner and the guys I worked with. Sure the codes are way more strict today but we did work as we were directed. I built meter panels for some apartment buildings.....I ran all the individual apartment feeds for those buildings ....and a lot of the wire I had to use was aluminum......It was terrible to work with. All my panel work was inspected and passed. We wired apartments, houses and did alterations and all kinds of work.......Todays aluminum wire may be a lot better, I sure hope so.....

No I did not stay as an electrician and no I don't have 40 years of experience as one but I do recall working with what I would consider to be poor quality aluminum wire back in those days......and yes I am from the Northeast...New Jersey to be exact.....and I also have heard about aluminum wire causing issues and can easily see why.......
 

JWelectric

Electrical Contractor/Instructor
Messages
2,608
Reaction score
21
Points
38
Location
North Carolina
Hey dude it is not only me but the National Electrical Manufacturers Association that makes these statements as well as the manufacturers of the aluminum wiring methods.

Your analogy of using copper verses aluminum as a tie wire is nowhere close as to using the two for an electrical circuit. Just how many times do you twist a conductor when making up switches and receptacles? Let me think, well we take them out 3 or 4 times every day to check on them……
Come on man act like you at least know what we are talking about.

I suppose if I got me a #8 conductor it would bend easier than a 250kcmil so maybe there is some merit to what you are saying. Any well versed electrician knows that there will be a difference in flexibility of a TW conductor and a THHN conductor but the conductor plays no role but instead the insulation.

The wire you found in the desert sounds like a piece of wire the Indians used to tie up their electrical cords with. It sure lasted a long time.
 

Ballvalve

General Engineering Contractor
Messages
3,581
Reaction score
45
Points
48
Location
northfork, california
When you wire your house in 12g aluminum wire, be sure and buy all arc fault breakers. That will even out the cost with copper. And install extra smoke detectors, with copper wire, just to be sure.

The telegraph wire makes great hooks. 120 years in the dirt and the copper is still fresh says much about its qualities.
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
When you wire your house in 12g aluminum wire, be sure and buy all arc fault breakers.

Arc fault breakers are slowly becoming a code requirement in many more branch circuits, so this won't be an extra (optional) cost. IF you install the stuff properly, it works. That takes both the right technique, materials, and good workmanship.
 

Cwhyu2

Consultant
Messages
1,615
Reaction score
22
Points
38
Location
Cincinnati OH
The only comment I have is Beverly Hills Supper Club fire,165 dead and it was blamed on aluminum wiring,but it
caused a big controversy and lots of law suits.
 

Attachments

  • 3-13-09_SupperFire.jpg
    3-13-09_SupperFire.jpg
    10.2 KB · Views: 330
Last edited:

Speedy Petey

Licensed Electrical Contractor
Messages
1,108
Reaction score
9
Points
38
Location
NY State, USA
The only comment I have is Beverly Hills Supper Club fire,165 dead and it was blamed on aluminum wiring,but it
caused a big controversy and lots of law suits.
Why not throw in some pics of burned up bodies, just to add to the drama. :rolleyes:
 

Speedy Petey

Licensed Electrical Contractor
Messages
1,108
Reaction score
9
Points
38
Location
NY State, USA
When you wire your house in 12g aluminum wire, be sure and buy all arc fault breakers. That will even out the cost with copper. And install extra smoke detectors, with copper wire, just to be sure.
I didn't read every word of every post, but I don't recall seeing where anyone said they are going to wire their house with #12AL. Can you point that out to me?
Or is this just more over dramatics?
 

Ballvalve

General Engineering Contractor
Messages
3,581
Reaction score
45
Points
48
Location
northfork, california
I didn't read every word of every post, but I don't recall seeing where anyone said they are going to wire their house with #12AL. Can you point that out to me?
Or is this just more over dramatics?

Our mod said he would wire his house in 12 ga al if he could get it and do it the right way, as I recall.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks