10/3 without a ground for dryer outlet

[jwrunner]

I have an existing circuit run to the dryer location in an older house that has 10/3 wiring that doesn’t have a ground wire. Just red, black, and white. Can I use that without a ground in a 3 prong dryer outlet. Or perhaps a 4 prong and add a ground wire connected to the water pipes? Thanks in advance.
John

 

[hj]

Your dryer will either come with the internal ground attached to the "neutral" terminal, or you can do it, so you can use a 3 wire pigtail to the receptacle.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[jwrunner]

Your dryer will either come with the internal ground attached to the "neutral" terminal, or you can do it, so you can use a 3 wire pigtail to the receptacle.

Thanks HJ. Just so I'm clear, the wall outlet just uses red and black for hot, and white for neutral, and doesn't need a ground attachment to the outlet?

 

[Reach4]

I have an existing circuit run to the dryer location in an older house that has 10/3 wiring that doesn’t have a ground wire. Just red, black, and white. Can I use that without a ground in a 3 prong dryer outlet. Or perhaps a 4 prong and add a ground wire connected to the water pipes? Thanks in advance.
John

What you want to do is to put a GFCI outlet in. It will have two 3-hole sockets. You are required to put a prescribed label on the outlet that says there is no actual equipment ground. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....copper-pipe-code-compliant.73592/#post-542439

If you do decide to run a ground, it has to go all of the way back to the breaker box.

 

[Stuff]

For a 240v receptacle you can't attach the ground to a water pipe. You need to run it back to the panel. Newer codes let you run the ground to another circuit that comes from the same panel.

 

[jwrunner]

What you want to do is to put a GFCI outlet in. It will have two 3-hole sockets. You are required to put a prescribed label on the outlet that says there is no actual equipment ground. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....copper-pipe-code-compliant.73592/#post-542439

If you do decide to run a ground, it has to go all of the way back to the breaker box.

Thanks Reach, but this is an electric dryer outlet. Like this ...

 

[Reach4]

Thanks Reach, but this is an electric dryer outlet. Like this ...

Duh... I just read too little too fast.

Stuff picked up on that, and I did not.

I would think this outlet would be grandfathered in, and your dryer would use a 3-wire plug. But you could add a ground wire-- not part of the electrical system-- from a screw on the dryer to some piping. It does not fulfill any code section, but I don't think it would be prohibited to exist. I am not a pro.

Another idea would be to to put in a new 2-pole gfci breaker in the breaker box, and then add two stickers to the new 4-hole outlet. Besides "no equipment ground", you would have a "gfci protected" sticker. I think that would meet code.

 

[wwhitney]

I have an existing circuit run to the dryer location in an older house that has 10/3 wiring that doesn’t have a ground wire. Just red, black, and white. Can I use that without a ground in a 3 prong dryer outlet.

Yes, a new installation would require an EGC (ground, green), but in existing installations predating that requirement, you are allowed to bond the dryer chassis to the neutral, rather than to the EGC. The proper receptacle is a 10-30, and it's important that the bonding strap connecting the neutral and chassis inside the dryer is installed.

Or perhaps a 4 prong and add a ground wire connected to the water pipes?

A separate EGC can be run, although not to an arbitrary point on the water pipes. Then the proper receptacle is a 14-30, and it's important that the bonding strap in the dryer not be installed. For a list of places to which you can run your separate EGC, see NEC 250.130(C):

250.130(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit Extensions. The equipment grounding conductor of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:
(1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system as described in 250.50
(2) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor
(3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch circuit originates
. . .

(the next few options aren't really applicable to your situation)

For (1), on a metal underground water service, only the first 5' of the water pipe in the house is an acceptable connection point. And you should see a ground clamp on that metal water pipe with a wire going to an electrical panel. That wire would be option (2).

However, often it's the case that if you can run a separate EGC, you can just as well run a new 10/3 cable (with EGC) back to the panel, which is a better result.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[DavidDeBord]

Thanks HJ. Just so I'm clear, the wall outlet just uses red and black for hot, and white for neutral, and doesn't need a ground attachment to the outlet?

Jw,... 10-3 NM is supposed to have a Ground wire, which actually would be 4 wires. It's kinda like 10-2NM has a 2 wires & a ground, & Yes, Your Dryer per the NEC 2017 is required to be "Grounded" per article 250.114.

And no,.... A Dryer circuit is not required, per the NEC to be GFI, nor Arc Fault protected.

 

[Aaroninnh]

Jw,... 10-3 NM is supposed to have a Ground wire, which actually would be 4 wires. It's kinda like 10-2NM has a 2 wires & a ground, & Yes, Your Dryer per the NEC 2017 is required to be "Grounded" per article 250.114.

And no,.... A Dryer circuit is not required, per the NEC to be GFI, nor Arc Fault protected.

2020 code now requires dryers to be GFCI protected. Not adopted in most area, but its coming.

 

[wwhitney]

2020 code now requires dryers to be GFCI protected. Not adopted in most area, but its coming.

Only if it has a receptacle. Dryers are still allowed to be hardwired, and the 2020 requirement for receptacles in laundry areas may lead to more electric dryers being hardwired.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Aaroninnh]

Only if it has a receptacle. Dryers are still allowed to be hardwired, and the 2020 requirement for receptacles in laundry areas may lead to more electric dryers being hardwired.

Cheers, Wayne

Sure, but then it needs a disconnect either within sight of the dryer or a breaker lock installed on the branch circuit breaker in the panel. My guess is most electricians will leave them cord and plug connected.

Same thing happened with dishwashers, to the point that many electricians think a dishwasher now HAS to have a cord on it to meet code for the disconnect...when in fact another disconnecting means is permitted such as a switch within sight or a lockable breaker.

 

[WorthFlorida]

All electric dryers have instructions for such a connection. If your dryer is no less than about 20 years old, the cable can be a three or four prong plug The terminals in the dryer must be properly wired (strapped) for a neutral and/or ground connection vs. the power cord type.

This Whirlpool Installation Instruction booklet is very good but you need to follow it carefully. When NEC changed the rules for electric ranges and dryers to four prong (neutral and ground), provisions was were made for new four wire appliances to be used on three wire homes.

https://www.whirlpool.com/content/d.../installation-instructions-W10443041-RevB.pdf

 

[DavidDeBord]

2020 code now requires dryers to be GFCI protected. Not adopted in most area, but its coming.

2020 NEC is not the Current Code, & I've never heard of a Dryer being placed on a GFI. Not cleaning the lint trap enough, & allowing lint to pass thru the system, collecting on the elements/blower, would cause False Shutdowns.

 

[DavidDeBord]

Where is the National Electrical Code® in effect?

NEW! CodeFinder™: Insight you need on NFPA codes and standards.

As of December 1, 2020, the 2020 NEC is in effect in six states, the 2017 NEC is in effect in twenty-nine states, the 2014 NEC is in effect in nine states and the 2008 NEC is in effect in two states. If you have a question on the status of NEC enforcement in any state, please contact Jeff Sargent.

Note: The 2020 edition of the NEC was issued by the NFPA Standards Council on August 5, 2019. The effective date was August 25, 2019, when it officially became available for federal, state, county, and municipal governmental entities to update their electrical installation regulations.

https://www.nfpa.org/NEC/NEC-adoption-and-use/NEC-adoption-maps

 

[Fitter30]

Where is the National Electrical Code® in effect?

NEW! CodeFinder™: Insight you need on NFPA codes and standards.

As of December 1, 2020, the 2020 NEC is in effect in six states, the 2017 NEC is in effect in twenty-nine states, the 2014 NEC is in effect in nine states and the 2008 NEC is in effect in two states. If you have a question on the status of NEC enforcement in any state, please contact Jeff Sargent.

Note: The 2020 edition of the NEC was issued by the NFPA Standards Council on August 5, 2019. The effective date was August 25, 2019, when it officially became available for federal, state, county, and municipal governmental entities to update their electrical installation regulations.

https://www.nfpa.org/NEC/NEC-adoption-and-use/NEC-adoption-maps

NEC® enforcement


Throughout the United States and around the world, NFPA 70®, National Electrical Code® (NEC®), published by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA), sets the foundation for electrical safety in residential, commercial, and industrial occupancies. Learn more about enforcement efforts, status, and the support of the Electrical Code Coalition, which works to increase focus and emphasis on electrical safety for persons and property through direct and full adoption, application and uniform enforcement of the latest edition of the NEC.

 

[DavidDeBord]

Fitter,the 2020 NEC is not in effect here in Ohio, We are under the 2017, & if You notice, the article states that two states are still under the 2008 Code.

The 2020 has not been Universally adopted by all of America.