1 Submersible feeding 2 residence

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Daniel Collick

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After 18 years in, I confess I may be a little outside my experience. If my terminology or conclusion is off point, I apologize in advance.
I’ve installed pumps inside buildings, boosters, pressure tanks, etc, but incorporating something in this scenario I have not.
-submersible pump in a lake
-1” supply line to the main residence feeds a pressure tank and reduces 1”x3/4”x3/4” , one 3/4” line to supply the main residence and the second 3/4” line to supply the second residence located approximately 25 yards downhill from the primary residence.
-standard 40-60 pressure switch
-old, but maintained by the owner, canister & UV filtration system
-Primary residence fixture count:
1 KS
3 bathroom groups
1/2 bathroom
1 Clothes washer
1 Yard hydrant
-Secondary residence fixture count
2 KS
1 Utility sink
1 bathroom group
1 clothes washer
1 hose bib
The pressure isn’t bad, but it’s certainly affected at the secondary residence understandably when the primary residence is using water.
I don’t know when the last time the submersible pump &/or its housing was checked/cleared of any sludge or debris.
To my customer’s question, can an inline booster similar to a SCALA2 or better option be installed on the 3/4” supply line at the secondary residence without harming anything at the primary residence?
Is this the best way to supply the secondary residence with more consistent pressure within the 40-60 pressure switches range set at the pressure tank of the primary residence.
I do want to expand my experience in this area so I’m not inclined to just slap a piece of equipment in and collect payment.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
 

Bannerman

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Submersible pump model and HP? 115 volts or 230? 2-wire or 3-wire supply cable?

What is the distance from the lake to the 1st home, and how much rise in elevation is there from the lake up to the 1st home?

Filters and UV equipment for entire system or for only one home? (equipment located before or after the 1"X3/4" X3/4" Tee?)

Any check valves within the system downstream of the check valve located within the submersible pump?

Types of isolation valves utilized in the system. Globe valves will restrict flow as will a defective gate valve, so full-port ball valves are recommended.
 
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Bannerman

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the best way to supply the secondary residence with more consistent pressure within the 40-60 pressure switches range
A larger diameter supply line would have been advisable.

Consider adding a Cycle Stop Valve before the pressure tank. If the submersible pump can deliver a higher flow rate than needed for both homes, then a CSV will restrict the flow from the pump to supply constant pressure and the exact flow rate being utilized in both homes.

https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/pk1a-pside-kick
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
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All good questions from Bannerman, and thanks for mentioning a CSV. But maybe an easier way to get started is by just watching the pressure gauge while the pressure seems low. Try duplicating the use of water that causes the problem. Does the pressure just go below 40 and stay there, or does it slowly go up to 60 and back to 40 over and over again? The first scenario would be a pump or well problem, the second would only be a pump control problem.
 

Daniel Collick

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A larger diameter supply line would have been advisable.

Consider adding a Cycle Stop Valve before the pressure tank. If the submersible pump can deliver a higher flow rate than needed for both homes, then a CSV will restrict the flow from the pump to supply constant pressure and the exact flow rate being utilized in both homes.

https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/pk1a-pside-kick
agree, these residences are not incredibly old but were plumbed before my time. A 1” supply to each would’ve been easily justified.
 

Daniel Collick

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Submersible pump model and HP? 115 volts or 230? 2-wire or 3-wire supply cable?

What is the distance from the lake to the 1st home, and how much rise in elevation is there from the lake up to the 1st home?

Filters and UV equipment for entire system or for only one home? (equipment located before or after the 1"X3/4" X3/4" Tee?)

Any check valves within the system downstream of the check valve located within the submersible pump?

Types of isolation valves utilized in the system. Globe valves will restrict flow as will a defective gate valve, so full-port ball valves are recommended.
Thank you for asking.
-I should have, but failed to get the info on the pump. I’ll work on that.
-Distance from the lake up to the first home is approximately, and I can nail it down more precisely if necessary, at least 60 yards away and approximately 30’ uphill. I apologize for not knowing exactly.
-All the equipment, pressure tank & filtration is upstream from the tee, and the equipment services both residences.
-I’ll check my photos for check valves.
-All the valves are ball valves, but unfortunately some of them are PVC plastic ball valves.
 

Daniel Collick

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All good questions from Bannerman, and thanks for mentioning a CSV. But maybe an easier way to get started is by just watching the pressure gauge while the pressure seems low. Try duplicating the use of water that causes the problem. Does the pressure just go below 40 and stay there, or does it slowly go up to 60 and back to 40 over and over again? The first scenario would be a pump or well problem, the second would only be a pump control problem.
Would a CSV be installed in conjunction, or working, with the existing pressure switch & pressure tank? Sorry if it’s an obvious question for someone with more experience than myself, but it seems like it’d help me personally as well as my employer for me to try and learn a little more about submersible systems and their components.
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
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Although the CSV will work fine without a pressure tank/pressure switch when the pump is turned on manually or with an irrigation controller pump start relay, it is most commonly used with a pressure tank and pressure switch. If a pressure tank and pressure switch already exist, a CSV can be added prior to any size pressure tank like this.
CSV1A and 20 gallon tank.jpg


If it is a new system or you are replacing an old tank and all the fittings, you can use the PK1A kit that comes with a 4.5 or 10 gallon size tank, pressure switch, gauge, and all the fittings needed like this.

PK!A customer photo.jpeg


Or this.

PK1A 10 gal with CPVC.jpeg


With a pressure tank/pressure switch you only have control of the pressure the pump starts and the pressure the pump stops. Adding a CSV gives you the ability to control the pressure the pump produces once the pressure switch has started it. With the CSV adjusted to 50 PSI, the pump stays running with the pressure at a constant 50 PSI instead of going on and off repeatedly between 40 and 60. The CSV allows the use of a much smaller tank and solves nearly every pump system problem, as most are caused by the pump cycling on and off. Would be glad to help if you have more questions.
 

Daniel Collick

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Although the CSV will work fine without a pressure tank/pressure switch when the pump is turned on manually or with an irrigation controller pump start relay, it is most commonly used with a pressure tank and pressure switch. If a pressure tank and pressure switch already exist, a CSV can be added prior to any size pressure tank like this.
View attachment 93285

If it is a new system or you are replacing an old tank and all the fittings, you can use the PK1A kit that comes with a 4.5 or 10 gallon size tank, pressure switch, gauge, and all the fittings needed like this.

View attachment 93286

Or this.

View attachment 93287

With a pressure tank/pressure switch you only have control of the pressure the pump starts and the pressure the pump stops. Adding a CSV gives you the ability to control the pressure the pump produces once the pressure switch has started it. With the CSV adjusted to 50 PSI, the pump stays running with the pressure at a constant 50 PSI instead of going on and off repeatedly between 40 and 60. The CSV allows the use of a much smaller tank and solves nearly every pump system problem, as most are caused by the pump cycling on and off. Would be glad to help if you have more questions.
Thank you very much!
I should’ve known better, but I’m almost certain the existing system does not have a check valve immediately following the system’s main water shut off. Although this may not be the problem, if you agree, I think a check valve should be part of the solution, also including the CSV.
Would you mind listing, in order of direction of flow, the components in their correct order. For example: system isolation valve-check valve-CSV-pressure tank-filtration system-house/fixtures,etc…
And would you mind pointing me in the right direction of the model number or type of CSV that I can consider putting on this existing pressure tank?
Thanks again!
 

WorthFlorida

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This situation seems to be coming up more often, one pump, two residents. I know nothing about this subject other than many homes do use a lake for irrigation here in Florida. After many years under water sediments will clog up the inlets. Even small stones, or as in Florida, tiny pieces of shells or coral, ancient ones, get sucked into the system causing clogs and restrict flow.

if you can lift the pump out of the water and do an inspection may save many hours of frustration and money. Cary is the best when it comes to this type of work. Have you measured the current draw while the pump is running. Knowing the pump size and voltage, Cary can tell you if you're drawing the correct current.
 
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