When you just cant run a vent to the new basement bathroom

[Master Plumber Mark]

Got to give an estimate to someone this weekend

to tear up the floor of the basement and installan ejector pit,

pump and all the pipe necessary for a full bathroom ........


Their is absoulutely NO WAY in hell to install a vent out the roof

or revent it into an existing vent above the second floor.....

without cutting through walnut and cherry walls, marble panels ect all in the way .....


So I explained to the customer that I would simply have to
cut the main 3 inch PVC line TWICE and use it for both the
vent and the drain to this new bathroom...


In my opinion, being a 3 inch drain line it will work fine , though it is
techneiclly not "kosher"

running the 2 inch vent as high as possible in the rafters and then dropping
down into the 3 inch pipe UP- STREAM of the discharge pipe...
will work for years and years to come...........



the only other possible avenue is to go under the kitchen sink
with a re-vent pipe and tie into that vent in the wall

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In others opinion,


When you have no other optioins that are feasable and or cost affective,

what is the best plan of attack????

 

[Finnegan]

It will most likely work just fine. You can always add an air admittance valve in the basement as well. However, this installation will not likely satisfy any code. I believe most ejectors call for a dedicated vent and exclude using an AAV for this. So, I think you have described a plan that will work, but not be code compliant and not pass an inspection.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Winslow]

No permit?

If they sell the house in the future they will have to make it code complient.

 

[speedball1]

Hey Mark,

" I explained to the customer that I would simply have to
cut the main 3 inch PVC line TWICE and use it for both the
vent and the drain to this new bathroom...
In my opinion, being a 3 inch drain line it will work fine , though it is
techneiclly not "kosher"
running the 2 inch vent as high as possible in the rafters and then dropping
down into the 3 inch pipe UP- STREAM of the discharge pipe...
will work for years and years to come."

I don't see why it wouldn't work for the sanitary vent but I failed to see where the vent from the holding tank would go. The holding tank should be left a dedicated vent. The holding tank vent's different from the sanitary vents because it exhausts gas out as well as bringing air in. I hope you won't think me "pushy" if I offer a sugestion. I understand your problem with running a roof vent or drilling up to pick up a revent. Since you're roughing for a full bathroom group, why not wet vent the tub/shower to the lav drain and as finnegan suggests, use a Studor Vent, (AAV) off the lav to vent the group and run a holding tank vent out the side of the building just above the foundation and turn it down with a screened ell? Just a suggestion from the newby. Good luck on the job, Tom

 

[Coach606]

Maybe not...

I don't believe they will have to make it code compliant when they sell. Why do people keep saying this? If a buyer wants the place, he/she will overlook it, especially if it works and so long as it isn't dangerous. No seller but one totally desperate negotiates this way with a buyer.

Lots of things were not compliant with code the two times I've bought houses. On one, the developer said that it's the city's responsibility to make sure our condo was to code. He'll deal with them, not my inspector. I bought the place and did great when I sold it a few years later.

My current house has plenty of wiring that wasn't to code, even when it was redone. Didn't stop a bidding war on it, although I did ask for and get a bit of an allowance to deal with the wiring. It was about 20% of the cost to actually redo the situation.

Hey, laws differ in different places. But my experience has twice been that there is no truth to the idea that off permit work must be corrected when you sell. I'm sure it's true in the letter of the law. But in reality, it's a non issue.

You certainly don't have to redo things to code just to sell your home. But if you want to make a deal with a certain buyer, you may have to compromise a bit.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

good enough

about what I expected to hear

meeting code is impossible and impractical

Auto air vents are not good in this situation..

and takeing a vent outside and turning it down is
not an option either.. the smell could travel
upwards to a bedroom window

but getting into that main drain line for a vent
for both the pit and the revents for the lavatory
is about as close to good enough as I can get...


sometimes you just got to do what you KNOW will work

out ok to get the job done as best possible.....


and you can sleep with yourself later on ...

 

[Terry]

The last basement sewage ejector installed bathroom I did,
I used a 2" vent through the outside wall and up two stories through the overhang, and then was flashed at the roof.
It was permited and passed inspection.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

sounds wonderful

thanks for the advice Terry.......


unfortunately,

this house is about a 350k home in a
very nice area and they arent gonna accept that ......

350k home is considered pretty nice for Indy.....

so if it happens, I will jsut do what I got to do to win.....

 

[Terry]

So it's okay to have run a rain downspout that is painted to match the house on a $350 house, (worth maybe $700 in the Seattle area)

but not a plumbing vent?

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

cost vs consequences

You have to please the customer -- cost vs consequences

and of course they already have 2 other "jack leg" estimates

that are planning on just putting an auto air vent on that

sewage ejector pit and call it at that.........

Of course I mentioned to them that this is a really, really bad

way to "vent that plumbing system and pit" ----cause it wont work...

and basically its just going in one ear and out the other

so all they care about is the bottom dollar price......


that is what you compete with sometimes around here....

so what do you do>> the best you can with what you find yourself

competeing with...


ps like your upgrades....

 

[Douche]

why wouldnt you just use a ejector pump, they only need a 2" vent. I've installed several of these and 2" is all the manual says you need...Ran the vent outside of basement and used a separate downspout and ran it up side of the house near water downspout so it matched the house siding...

 

[Cass]

When homes are sold they are not "required" to meet any code. The only time the code is enforced is when the inspector is inspecting work on a pulled permit and/or there is a code problem prior to closing.

A Home built in say 1825 wouldn't have been built to any enforced code and you can buy and sell it all day long without bringing it up to any code.

That said a problem that does come up fairly regularly is when a home owner adds a bathroom and doesn't pull a permit, you buy the house and sometime after a property tax audit reveals a bathroom that wasn't there B4 and your taxes go up, sometimes quite a bit.

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

what is the best plan of attack????

Walk away from the job altogether. Let a "hack" take on the job that doesn't have a reputation to protect.

I turned down a toilet install that the customer has no intention of venting. I didn't keep my word and didn't produce an estimate in writing.

Way too much work out there in this profession to be having any jobs backfire just because you got greedy.

As you know with any plumbing job whether new construction or service, "If it's done right and done right the first time, no worries. Period.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

probably will or have already

Rugged ---you are probably 100% right about this....

Best not to do anyone favors, or do good deeds

for people that really want only the bottom dollar price .......

but I seem to keep forgetting


I just got "punished " this week for doing "charity work"

for a freinds kid... wanted a "rough only" for an new bathroom

on a concrete slab floor...going out the back of the

slab house and tieing into the septic tank....

they were gonna fiinsh it themselves...

it was probably worth about 2800...did it for far less...

and quickly because they were in a hurry to get it done...

Jack-hammered up the floor myself and installed a toilet, laundry box,
lavatory, shower and pedistle lav......

used 10 bags of concrete to fill in the hole....

ran the water lines and installed them a free Delta 1300 shower faucet.

but I left the debris for them to get rid of... ( that upset them)

ran the drian out to the septic and tied into the cast line

(they had to do the digging)
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Yesterday I am a SOB becasue the roof vent leaked and got their new

ceiling wet...... simply an innocent mistake here.. it rained 3 inches of water


they dont want me back on the job, LOL


I told them to just send me a check for what they felt was "fair"

as my punishment for doing them a good deed...........



and life goes on...........

 

[Cass]

I Agree with RUGGED, forget it and go on to the next job.

 

[Cass]

Rugged ---you are probably 100% right about this....

Best not to do anyone favors, or do good deeds

for people that really want only the bottom dollar price .......

but I seem to keep forgetting


I just got "punished " this week for doing "charity work"

for a freinds kid..., LOL


I told them to just send me a check for what they felt was "fair"

as my punishment for doing them a good deed...........



and life goes on...........

I don't do favors when asked for that very reason. I will do them only when I offer them.

MPM try this sometime it is pretty funny to see the expression on peoples faces if you do.

The next time someone asks for a discount look them in the eye and act supprised and say, gee buisness has been slow and seeing your my friend, I was going to ask you if you could pay me double for this job.

They get the point very quickly. It's also funny to see the look on there face, they don't know what to say cause there caught with their own question only in reverse.

What's good for the goose should be good for the gander.

 

[speedball1]

Mark,

Don'tcha just know it? The jobs ya wanna do cheap and fast for that little old granny living on a fixed incomer always give you the most grief. A pipe busts inside a wall? The job turns out to be "major surgery" and not the simple call you hoped it would be. And now you're "The Bad Guy" because things went wrong.
Hey! Been there, done that!!
As for the basement job I have only this to say. While a customer can tell me what they want done or accomplished there isn't anybody gonna tell me how to do it. If I hafta be told how to run a job then I shouldn't be out there tn the first place.
My take?? Don't prostitute your labor or comprise good plumbing practice because a customer is dictating how the job should be done. I throw my vote in with Cass and Rugged. WALK away from this disaster in the works.
The competition wants to install a AAV for a holding tank vent? Unbelievable!!
Walk but leave your business card and inform the customer that you'll be available to fix any mistakes and code violations but it costs more to fix someone else mistakes then it would have cost them to do the job right in the first place
Regards, Tom

 

[Terry]

I plumbed and trimmed an entire house one hour a way from my home for a friend, with the agreement, his idea, that he would side my next house.

Making an appointment to have dinner with him and his family this Summer is almost impossible with all "his" commitments.

I move into this house in November, he just saw it the first time two weeks ago. He suggested he could help on my next project here.
If he can't meet for dinner, I don't know how he would find time to bring tools and help me for, lets say 2-3 weeks?

I could do it, because I treated him like a regular job and blocked out the time.
I know he can't take time off from work to help me on mine.

At church I quit telling people what I did.
Everybody expects free work or darn near it.
If you bid the job and some hack can beat the price by $10 they don't give you the work.
And then they tell you the hack charged them more because,
"he didn't know so much was involved".
The hack can get the job, because he doesn't know what is involved on the front end of the job. Only after the inspector has turned him down a few times does he realize.

I helped some kids move to Blaine (near Canada) with my cube van.
They didn't have time to drive 20 minutes more to meet my family and have dinner with them.

But they did call to ask if I could come up there again and change their water heater from electric to gas and run piping and a chimmney through their roof for free.

If you treat every job the same, you don't have problems.
The job above would have been $15,000 at least.
I left about $10,00 on the table that I will never see.

And I still don't get any kind of priority for simple things like,
Hey how about a beer after work next week?
We try for this every two or three months.
I block out time from work to meet him, but if somthing else comes up, he cancels it.
I guess his time is worth more.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

its the same everywhere, aint it???

Yep, I think that every plumber has been asked to

help a "freind" do a major bplumbing job for

"beer and pizza" and the promise of BARTER for

future "things to come"...........................


Its someting to do with that "school of hard knocks"

most plumbers have to go to....


I have graduated form the "Lets BARTER plumbing for Miles of Blue Sky " course already........


Isnt it amazeing how quickly they scatter after you have

honored your side of the agreement??????