water level drop

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by johnfrwhipple, Dec 25, 2011.

  1. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Leo are you cutting down the Kerdi Curb you bought so it's not so huge?

    Posts removed by John Whipple

    Sorry Folks - I have taken down my post on Schluter's products. Just being careful with my wording.

    There is very little info online on the subject of flood testing a Kerdi shower. I have used Kerdi now on many shower builds and have so for years (about 13). I follow the European installation protocol and over the last 16 months flooded many Kerdi showers. None dropped in level at all. Not a 1/8".

    Your key steps is measuring the water level exactly and ensuring you get no capillary wicking. To learn how to do this call Schluter or call me. My number is below. I have documented the process over and over and have dozens of detailed photo's showing the measures I take so you do not fail this oh so important step.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
  2. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    I think you are mistaken the width of the curb - large as you call it - with practical when cleaning the shower floor or even use it as a step. Other than aesthetically a narrow vs. large curb doesn't serve any purpose.

    No curb or curb less is a different story .
  3. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Posts removed by John Whipple
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  4. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Besides the possibility of cutting the curb , massiveness could be resolved . And there is no water pressure , head pressure -- other than the one added by singular thinking -- or any other pressure you see with using it.

    Oh , I got it...... A chance you didn't see the Eiffel curbes I am building... LOL
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  5. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  6. loudgonzo

    loudgonzo New Member

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  7. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    No kidding..... As soon as I mentioned curves...... I know you got disoriented. LOL

    Maybe later. Such pain to type on this crappy phone.....
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    A good porcelain tile has less than 1% absorbtion rate. Take your grout example...the head pressure is still WAY less than in the flood test. The head or water pressure on the membrane of a surface membrane shower is never worse than in the flood test, and if it does not leak then, it will never leak.

    Looks aside, and there's no reason a Kerdi shower need look any different than a conventionally built one, if the workmanship is properly it DOES NOT LEAK! There are lots of acceptable ways to build the curb and the pan can use their tray or be made from deckmud. As long as the shape of the pan conforms to industry standards, once covered with Kerdi, it is fine.

    The quality of the finish work has no reliable relationship to how well it was waterproofed. A beautiful looking shower can leak just as easily as a lousy one be watertight.

    FWIW, there are some places in Hawaii that average nearly 400" of rain a year, verses some in say Arizona that may average 5". Does that mean that a roof in HI will leak verses one in AZ because it sees more water? No, properly built, they are both waterproof and protect what's underneath them.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  9. loudgonzo

    loudgonzo New Member

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    John, can you post a picture of the shower in progress with the low curb when its completed? I like the tiles and want to see how the this one turns out, especially the floor.

    thanks,
    Leo
  10. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  11. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  12. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Can anyone show me where a porcelain tile broke loose from Ditra or Kerdi in an actual install when it was installed per Schluter's recommendations (this includes proper prep of the floor)? Yes, you probably can if there were not one of those membranes underneath it. The Robinson floor test of DitraXL on a 24" joist spacing (really stressful), installed per Schluter's recommendation gets a heavy or extra-heavy rating, depending on the tile size. This is better than installation at 16"OC with a cbu...so, who are you going to believe? The manufacturer that has the independent TCNA test results to verify it, or someone like John Whipple that just doesn't like me or Schluter, or believe they know how to install their own products? Those test reports are: TCNA-303-06 and TCNA-153-09. You can look them up yourself, if you don't believe me.

    As to bond strength, the TCNA also did some tests with porcelain tile with unmodified mortar, and came up with the following shear test average values of 277 and 365psi. Those test results are in TCA-073-03 and TCA-186-03. If you extrapolate those results to a 12x12 tile, that comes to 144*277= 39,888 or 144*365=52,560. I think, along with the long-term experience with their use AND the independent test results, John is blowing smoke.
  13. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Digital Billy

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    These flood tests are really boring. Aside from adding more water every 15 minutes to keep half the coin covered, there's nothing to do.

    [​IMG]
  14. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    If you build your water dam right , no more adding is needed . Like this one

    Water dam 003 Resized.jpg

    LOL
  15. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Digital Billy

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    What dam? I just kept smearing that red crap all the way to the top of the speedbump.
  16. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Posts removed by John Whipple

    Sorry Folks - I have taken down my post on Schluter's products. Just being careful with my wording.

    There is very little info online on the subject of flood testing a Kerdi shower. I have used Kerdi now on many shower builds and have so for years (about 13). I follow the European installation protocol and over the last 16 months flooded many Kerdi showers. None dropped in level at all. Not a 1/8".

    Your key steps is measuring the water level exactly and ensuring you get no capillary wicking. To learn how to do this call Schluter or call me. My number is below. I have documented the process over and over and have dozens of detailed photo's showing the measures I take so you do not fail this oh so important step.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
  17. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Digital Billy

    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    LV,NV/ Nowhere,UT
    Oh, I'm funny. LOL

    I had flood tested it with a plug after the liner install, and again after the screed bed with the plug. During the second test with the plug, the water level dropped very slowly. I didn't know if it was because I had poked a hole in the liner while the top layer went in, of if it was migrating through the weep holes. That was really bothering me.

    A third test with a ball below the weep holes and I'm sure I have no leaks. I have so much confidence, I'm going into the shower building business..

















    In Vancouver. (I get 10% of the cut from my junk you have to fix).

    See, that's funny.
  18. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Location:
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    Posts removed by John Whipple
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  19. wilkinte

    wilkinte New Member

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    Location:
    Utah
    Hey John, Tom from Utah back. While my flood testing went great, I'm a challenged tiler. Anyways, removing chipped tiles from my floor and I breached the kerdi, see pics. Sikaflex work here? hate to wait for kerdifix, could just thinset another layer down. Any advice appreciated!@! Salt Lake City-20140120-00059.jpg Salt Lake City-20140120-00060.jpg
  20. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Location:
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    If you patch with Kerdi or Kerdiband and maintain at least the 2" required overlap, it will be fine.
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