water level drop

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by johnfrwhipple, Dec 25, 2011.

  1. boardable

    boardable New Member

    Messages:
    51
    Location:
    San Jose, Ca
    I think I may be laying tile backwards. Because I am doing this in my own house I lay the shower floor tile first. Wait a day or two ( preferable two) . Then throw down some thick towels and a cardboard box and work my way up the wall. I like to do this to make sure the lower tiles are of full size. The little tile cuts can stay at the top. If I was doing this job for a customer I would do the wall tile then make my pan. For this job I do it this way. Once again kind of a novice so experience is teaching me. As far as my wet test I am a bit concerned about the coloring of the kerdi membrane and the wicking. Is this normal? just because of my scrubbing of the thinset off of the kerdi before?
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Location:
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    A proper joint won't wick more than around 1/4" under pressure. The recommended overlap is at least 2", which is 8x normal to account for minor deviations in perfect. If your flood test was good, you're fine.

    Nothing wrong with doing the floor first as long as you protect it well. Your layout should avoid slivers, either at the top or the bottom, so adjust the layout to avoid that which may mean partial tiles both top and bottom.
  3. boardable

    boardable New Member

    Messages:
    51
    Location:
    San Jose, Ca
    Jim definately. Looks so lame with little slivers I would rather half two tiles and make them a little less than a half etc or use the grout line to make it up than do a quarter tile. It looks like the water is just wicking up the thinset on the top of the membrane not under. But it is weird that I can see the bucket marks where I set the bucket down. May have compressed the fleece who knows. I'm using a foam pan liner so any leak will show quick since it has no where to go.
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Location:
    New England
    A full bucket of water has a significant pressure on the narrow rim, and could easily squish most of the thinset out and leave a depression. Not a big deal. Next time, set it on a piece of ply or something , to distribute the weight.
  5. boardable

    boardable New Member

    Messages:
    51
    Location:
    San Jose, Ca
    24hours no drop. But my joint did wick up over 4 inches. There is no way it isn't seamed correctly. I used kerdi corners and the piece is one piece. I ran it up the wall. I guess it just runs up the thinset. Crawled under the house and inspected. No leaks anywhere. Before I layed the floor I put down self leveling compound to level the floor then put the pan down. The only place for water to go would be the wall ( which I can see) or around the hole in the floor for the drain. Nothin there. I'm calling it good and for piece of mind all the seems are getting the redgard insurance. I have a left over bucket from my dads shower i did a month ago. For you pros, does the warranty extend to paying for labor if the product fails. If not who cares. Spending 300 dollars for more membrane when it fails isn't as bad as doing free work. Would rather just use the liquid on every seam and be over it
  6. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  7. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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  8. boardable

    boardable New Member

    Messages:
    51
    Location:
    San Jose, Ca
    John I have no prepared a tile sample board. What is that. No evap control. My pan wicked the same as your test box. Very disturbing. how can I make sure no water is just sitting below the membrane in some way. Even if it is just a little ? Only way I can think of is to cut a price of the krdi out and see hen make a patch to cover. Really wouldn't like to do it. But using gray thinset didn't halp in making it easy to see. Would it be almost black looking through the membrane ? Because it was dark just from me pressing when squeezing out thinset and when I was cleaning with water
  9. boardable

    boardable New Member

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    51
    Location:
    San Jose, Ca
    Please excuse the horrible
    Spelling. iPhone is not a great device to do speedy typing on
  10. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,154
    Location:
    New England
    A properly built shower has NO standing water...a flood test is an absolute worst case test that a real shower should never see once completed. If it didn't leak with that, there's essentially NO water pressure to push any moisture into the seams during typical use...IOW, don't worry about it! Any water in the shower will flow down the wall and along the slope to the drain. Any (very small) amount that MIGHT get below the tile, will do the same thing. There shouldn't be ANY accumulation of moisture beneath the tile of the pan with the membrane and the slope to the drain...it MIGHT get a little damp if used continuously, but no standing water enough to wick anywhere. This is the one big advantage of a surface membrane, however achieved: the water stops at that point and doesn't saturate the substrate. Now, in a conventional shower, that substrate should handle being wet, but IMHO, it's better to never give it the chance!
  11. boardable

    boardable New Member

    Messages:
    51
    Location:
    San Jose, Ca
    Very true. I do agree. I am going to use bostik epoxy grout. Any good ?
  12. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Posts removed by John Whipple

    Sorry Folks - I have taken down my post on Schluter's products. Just being careful with my wording.

    There is very little info online on the subject of flood testing a Kerdi shower. I have used Kerdi now on many shower builds and have so for years (about 13). I follow the European installation protocol and over the last 16 months flooded many Kerdi showers. None dropped in level at all. Not a 1/8".

    Your key steps is measuring the water level exactly and ensuring you get no capillary wicking. To learn how to do this call Schluter or call me. My number is below. I have documented the process over and over and have dozens of detailed photo's showing the measures I take so you do not fail this oh so important step.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
  13. boardable

    boardable New Member

    Messages:
    51
    Location:
    San Jose, Ca
    I agree flood test is a mandatory thing. Membrane will always stay wet. Even if a little water gets there. How do you guys feel about urethane and epoxy grouts ?
  14. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    While costly, and if you like the look, epoxy based grouts should be a lifetime install without regular maintenance. You can get some special effects with them (glow in black light, for example or glitter), if that's something that may go with the install design. Some are harder to install on the vertical than others (because it can slump a little), and cleanup is critical (but regular grout needs good cleanup, too) as it's harder to clean again afterwards if you miss some. Epoxy grouts have improved over the years to become easier to install and their colors will be brighter than any cement based grout.
  16. boardable

    boardable New Member

    Messages:
    51
    Location:
    San Jose, Ca
    I installed a euro thane or epoxy. Can't remember which it was in my parents shower. It was cleaner but yes the film was annoying took me a good 4 hours with caulking in the corners. Not sure. But with epoxy or eurothane grouts is it still necessary to caulk the corners ? Or is the grout just fine ?
  17. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,154
    Location:
    New England
    Industry standards call for caulk at the changes of plane (corners, floor/wall joints, etc.). Urethane remains somewhat flexible, so you could likely use it everywhere...epoxy does not. You likely used epoxy as, in a wear surface, it's harder and stronger. Epoxy would remain easier to clean as it is a very smooth surface. Abrasion can rough up urethane.
  18. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Kerdi Flood testing under tight time frames

    Posts removed by John Whipple
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  19. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Another year of testing Kerdi Showers - Water Level Drop = Level of Evaporation Only

    Posts removed by John Whipple
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  20. wilkinte

    wilkinte New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Utah
    Hi John, I have a related question. And by the way you can view my thread at home/garden forum too, under same username.

    I flood tested my shower earlier in the week and didn't lose anything over 24 hours. As a DIYer that made me feel good. Installed the kerdi over the schluter tray.

    But, 8 hours after I drained the water, the kerdi on the floor is still damp. I would have thought it bone dry by now. Most of the thinset seams are damp looking too (dark grey). Am I over thinking this?
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