TOTO Neorest 500 toilet product review and comments. MS950CG

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Terry, Jul 2, 2007.

  1. CSW

    CSW New Member

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    Hi guys,
    After I read all the positive reviews and I also ordered 500 to give a try. We realized the installation is a bit too hard for us so we started looking for a right person to do it.
    We got quotes from 2 different plumbers and they both gonna charge us over$600 to complete the task. Does this sound right? One plumber told us power allocation is kind of complicated too so it takes extra efforts to do this.
    Any advices would be appreciated.

    Jason
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2010
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    $600 plus electrical sounds about right.

    You want them to worry abit beforehand before they start.
    It's one of those, slow down, read everything, and get it right the first time installations.
     
  3. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    I charge $499 to install these, and I don't do any electrical.
    Until you have installed one yourself, then it's pointless to "wonder" why they take so long.

    The existing toilet supply can't be used.
    They supply their own shutoff and supply.
    Without changing the plumbing for that, you won't be able to install it.
    I had one customer that just assumed that his $3500 toilet from Japan would install using the same $5.99 3/8" connector that his other toilets use.
    It's not even close.
    There is not gravity tank on this.
    It depends on water volume at the wall to pump the waste through.
    Trying to do that through a tiny straw isn't going to do much for you.
    Imagine drinking a milk shake through your coffee stirrer.
    And would you want a guy that quoted $179 for the installation doing your $3500 toilet install?
    It doesn't take much to turn a $3500 beauty into a big box of parts that need returning.

    Installation manual

    Owners Manual

    [​IMG]
    The Neorest 600 comes with it's own supply and supply tube. It's a 1/2" female thread on the back of the shutoff. Specs call for the shutoff to be a little higher off the floor, and 11-3/4" to the left of center. If someone knew that before the walls were in, that is where you could put it.
    This bathroom was like most homes with the shutoff closer. The top fitting swings, which is good, it allows the connection without kinking the supply.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
  4. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    You lost me on your first comment of
    "So does the homeowner then just get to do a manual flush?"

    I'm a plumber.
    So when the customer calls up, I tell him to have the electrical installed in the wall before I get there.
    If they don't know an electrician, there are a few numbers I can give him.

    For the toilet to flush properly using the pump, it needs the non restricted supply that comes with the bowl.
    A 3/8" will be too small.
    So I think it's nice to be up front with people, if they are spending that kind of money, they should follow the recommend steps and be able to enjoy all the functions.
    It's not a bargain to save a buck here and there, and then not get what you have already paid for.
    If the supply is not the original, then it may not rinse the bowl as well.

    It also doesn't make sense to tell these people with the investment, that is is like installing their TOTO Drake.

    As far as pricing goes, most plumbers in the Seattle area are charging double my rates.
    I charge $179 for a standard toilet installation.
    Lowes Hardware charges $219.00 plus $10.00 in parts, plus $45.00 more if you bring the toilet out with you.

    I come highly recommended on the Microsoft website.
    They like bargains too, which is maybe why I get so many referrals from Microsoft.
    They know that I will include all the factory parts, things like a shutoff with water filter and the full size water connection.

    [​IMG]
    Moving the shutoff for the Neorest 550
    The job was for one of my neighbors.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2010
  5. pixie

    pixie New Member

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    Hi, I'm new to this forum and appreciate all the great information! I do have a question about the supply line. The Neorest 500 installation instructions specifically call for the line as follows: Please make sure that the water supply from the water shutoff valve faces downward at a 60 degree angle and toward the side of the toilet. Is this just to prevent the line from kinking/twisting? For the 600 model, it looks like you have angled it upward away from th toilet in the picture above, but the 600 manual specifies that it should be parallel to the floor. Just trying to see how we can make this work. As long as the supply line is not kinked, does it matter which direction the line is going (i.e., pointing away from the toilet or towards the toilet, angled downward vs. angled upward)? Our supply line is very close to the toilet as well so we're just trying to find a solution without having to move the supply line if we don't have to. Thanks in advance!
     
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    In a perfect world, you would have bought the Neorest first.
    Then the plumber would have read the rough-in instructions and installed the water supply exactly where TOTO likes it to be before the room was drywalled.

    The important thing, is that the large braided hose does not kink.
    That is why the installation photo's look so different.
    As an installer on a retrofit installation, do you cut the wall, move the supply, and then have the homeowner bring in a drywall repair and painter?
    With the 550, you are kind of stuck, the supply has to be in just one spot, but at least you can hide a lot of that with the "wings" that cover toward the back.

    So the option is:
    1) Install right to spec, and then do a drywall patch and paint
    2) Set the bowl down, and see what you can get by with without kinking.
    Sometimes adding a few inches of pipe and a 90 el is enough for the connection.

    But you must use the Toto supplied shutoff, with the large thread and the water screen that can be removed and cleaned.
    And the Large braided Toto supplied water supply.
    It needs these two parts to function correctly.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2010
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Most plumbers are roughing water at 6" to the left.
    If you are installing a Neorest 500, the water needs to be moved over.

    [​IMG]

    The Neorest comes with it's own shutoff with filter screen. The large braided hose is needed or it won't flush right.
    You can't use a 3/8" hose on these, no tank, so you need more volume.
    [​IMG]
    Terry
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2010
  8. Sinjinn

    Sinjinn New Member

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    Ontario
    Neorest 500 Amateur Install

    Just to show it can be done if you are handy with tools and understand electrical and plumbing supply lines: below is my self-installed Neorest 500. The job took a total of 15 hours from start to finish and that included running an electrical line from the attic, down through the bathroom cabinet and installing a GFI outlet; removing the old toilet, drilling and cutting bathroom tiles, using Shark plumbing fittings to extend the existing water supply far enough to the side of the toilet for a kinkless supply connection, and...well you can see the rest. The water supply line was a close fit!

    We love this unit! Although our supply pressure is on the low side and a double flush is necessary from time to time, that was the same with our old toilet, so not a big deal.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Humm, if the supply line before the new stuff was copper, if you'd used copper, it might have worked better. CPVC ID is smaller, closer to 3/8" copper, and is restricting the max flow.
     
  10. Sinjinn

    Sinjinn New Member

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    Thanks Jim...quite right and when we remodel our bathroom next year, we'll use all copper. I didn't have the necessary copper pipe/flux/solder/torch at hand, so I opted for an install using the shark connectors and PEX (about 6" length). The flow was adequate for a complete flush in almost all cases. However, as it turns out we had a problem with the flushes getting increasingly weak. I contacted Toto and after a bit of troubleshooting we determined that the flush valve solenoid was faulty. As a result the flush time was reduced and the jet did not operate for a sufficient length of time to clear the bottom of the bowl. Toto has very good customer service and they are sending me a replacement flush valve next week.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010
  11. Sinjinn

    Sinjinn New Member

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    Update

    Replaced the flush valve unit and toilet now flushes fine! I may take the old one apart to see if there is any adjustment that could be made on the time of the second stage of the flush. While I was at the repair I decide to replace the 6" section of PEX (I.D. of less than 0.4") with soft annealed copper pipe (I.D. of roughly 0.5") to see if it made much difference. Perhaps a little more volume...significant? Not sure.
     
  12. jten

    jten New Member

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    Boise ID
    pex and the neorest

    I just got my 500 installed a few days ago and cannot convey just how good it is. We were into the install when I ran across this forum (thank god) and someone was discussing 1/2 inch pex being undersized. If you are running pex, be sure to run 3/4. It doesn't say it anywhere in the manuals, but Toto will confirm that they are getting calls that the 1/2 inch pex might not work out so well but 1/2 copper probably will. We had to re-run the pex, but the wall was still open and nothing else was hooked up. 1 post on this forum was the only confirmation that I could find anywhere on the net. thanks!
     
  13. Faux Plumber

    Faux Plumber New Member

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    Very interested.

    xucchini: I have a similar problem about the rough-in distance, it is less than 12 inches, close to 11 1/2 inches. Toto's tech support people say that anything less than 12 inches will not work. I, too, wondered if an offset flange adapter could be used. You have not posted since December 2009. Did your installation work? Would you, please, post pictures of your installation? Thanks.

    Instructions
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2010
  14. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    I think you have a little leeway. The 500's that I have installed did not touch the wall.
    Also, the outlet of the adapter is about 2", dropping into a 3" drain.
    You can fudge the adapter forward a little bit if needed. That would be much, much better then installing a needless offset.

    I believe this was about 11.5" from the wall.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Faux Plumber

    Faux Plumber New Member

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    Thanks, Terry. That helps a lot.
     
  16. Faux Plumber

    Faux Plumber New Member

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    Neorest installed!

    Thanks to Terry's encouragement (that an 11.5 inch rough-in would be sufficient) we ordered a Neorest 500 for a bathroom we are re-doing and which I had already closed and tiled with large (13 in. x 26 in.) tiles. We hadn't decided on the Neorest before I closed the wall and tiled it, so we had concerns about the rough-in, which was just a bit shy of 11.5 inches, and the supply line which was six inches from the center of the toilet.

    I measured the horizontal distance between the back of the washlet after it has been installed on the toilet, and the center line of the bolt holes at the bottom, and found that that distance was about 3 1/8inches. I measured and re-measured the distance between the bolt holes in the gray outlet connection when installed over the waste flange, and the back wall. That was 3 1/4 inches. So, I went ahead and drilled the holes for the gray outlet connection in the green marble tile I had laid, and then my wife and I carefully lowered the toilet over the gray outlet connection. We were relieved to find that the fit was perfect, and the clearances looked very much as in the picture in Terry's first post.
    The water supply had to be moved over, and I did that with a few elbows and nipples (which I threaded manually from stainless steel pipe stock, hence my chosen name Faux Plumber.)

    The result is as in the picture.

    Thanks, Terry, for your encouragement and your wonderful Forum.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. msr12077

    msr12077 New Member

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    nyc6035,
    just curious how long it took to install the 1st unit and the 2nd unit? thanks!
     
  18. msr12077

    msr12077 New Member

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    Terry,
    If you had only 9 1/2 " to work would based on the existing pipe below to the septic, would you move the pipe 2" away from the wall and this means re-doing the hole into the tile and the pipe below going into the septic? or would you not do so, knowing 9 1/2 works just fine?

    Also, how long does it take to install from beginning to finish? I am planning on installing 2 units, but I have one bathroom, which is smaller and more space restrictions.

    Thanks!
     
  19. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Hello, just up the long street from me,

    It takes me 4 hours to install a Neorest 500, so it would take a homeowner longer.
    It's not that it's hard, it's that there are more things to do.
    You need at least 11.5" from the center of the drain to the wall.
    For the neorest, you will need to move the drain.
    The water supply should be 11.5" to the left of center. Toto supplies a shutoff valve that you must use with the Neorest.
    Terry ​
     
  20. jjwbhca

    jjwbhca New Member

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    Los Angeles
    Terry,

    I would like to get a Neorest 500 or 600 for my bathroom. The water supply line is 9.5" to the left of the center of where the toilet is. I have a Toto toilet there already, so the 12" rough-in is there already. It seems the only issue is the water supply line. The existing line is affixed through marble baseboard, and my water closet is venetian plastered, so I don't want to do any demo work. I have electrical on the rear wall behind the toilet as well.

    I am curious to hear of any suggestions or recommendations you may have to make this work. I would much rather purchase a Neorest 500 or 600 than a simple washlet.

    Thank you,
    jjwbhca
     
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