Best pump for hard water also, please review our setup & suggest other possible improvements

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Boyblue

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Pump: Goulds 3/4 HP Jet Pump Model C48A94A06 - Two years old

Tank: Wellmate WM0120 (30 gal) pressure tank - New

Well: 20 ft deep & looks to be 4" - has supplied at least 50% more than current demand & never ran dry

Cut in / cut out 42/62

Crudely measured tank drawdown is 4 gallons. Approximate GPM is 11

Takes about 25 seconds to fill the tank & Takes about 22 seconds to drawdown

This system currently supplies 2 homes with a total of 33 outlets (Faucet, Shower, Toilet etc.)

House nearest the pump has 20 outlets - 11 outlets is the maximum possible and 6 is the maximum likely to be used at one time

House adjacent has 13 outlets - 8 outlets is the maximum possible and 4 is the maximum likely to be used at one time

So the combined our likely maximum is 10 GPM

The only issue with our setup is that we have to buy a new pump every five years and that’s due in part to corrosion (above average salt content in the water & air) but primarily due to wear.

Questions:

1. If we keep the two homes on the single supply what size tank should we have?

2. What’s a reasonably priced corrosion resistant ¾ HP jet pump

3. If we put the second house on its own system please suggest a submersible pump that will last in hard water and the appropriate tank size
 
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Valveman

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You need a tank large enough to give the pump at least a minute of run time and at least a minute of off time. Two minutes is better and continually running the pump while using water is best.

A CSV1A would work fine with the tank you have, as it would keep the pump running continuously while water is being used.

Without a CSV I would use an 80 gallon size pressure tank, and 2 of those would be better. This won’t keep the pump running continuously while water is being used, but it will greatly reduce the number and frequency of the pump cycles.

All jet pumps and submersibles will have plastic or Stainless Steel internals that are corrosion resistant. I would just use a pump that has a SS housing as well in a corrosive environment. A 10 GPM, 1/2HP sub would be plenty large enough.
 

Boyblue

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You need a tank large enough to give the pump at least a minute of run time and at least a minute of off time. Two minutes is better and continually running the pump while using water is best.

A CSV1A would work fine with the tank you have, as it would keep the pump running continuously while water is being used.

Without a CSV I would use an 80 gallon size pressure tank, and 2 of those would be better. This won’t keep the pump running continuously while water is being used, but it will greatly reduce the number and frequency of the pump cycles.

All jet pumps and submersibles will have plastic or Stainless Steel internals that are corrosion resistant. I would just use a pump that has a SS housing as well in a corrosive environment. A 10 GPM, 1/2HP sub would be plenty large enough.
 

Boyblue

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I stayed up late last night researching CPV's and it's amazing they're not in common use. Any particular reason you didn't reccomend the CSV125?

Is having that much variability in the pressure setting worth the price difference especially when the CSV125 has the popular 40, 50 & 60 settings?

I cahtted with "D" on the CSV chat line it seemd that a jet pump is prefered, does the CSV's work better with jet pumps? Or was it this particular application...The second house that I mentioned (maximum likely demand is 6GPM) I would prefer to get a 10GPM submersible and using the CSV125 with a 2 gallon tank. The well is 20ft x 6in and has 15' 6" of water would you go with a 1/2 hp or 3/4 hp pump? And does the tank size really matter 2 vs 4.4?
 
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Reach4

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This is from Franklin J-Class pumps... This is the "10 GPM" pumps. 1/2 HP looks to be the better fit, I would think.
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LLigetfa

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I hate jet pumps and would never use one where I could drop in a sub. A sub never needs priming, can produce way more pressure, and uses half the electricity. A sub also eliminates motor cooling issues and noise.

I cannot think of any plusses for a jet.
 

Reach4

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Note that the above chart is for a 4-inch submersible pump. Jet pumps are much less efficient. They would require more HP and electricity to do the same job as a submersible.

Here is a portion of the chart for a "15 GPM" submersible pump. Note that the gray blocks are where pump is more efficient and the numbers with a white background are still in the normal operating range. With such a small head. http://franklin-electric.com/media/documents/JC_SeriesV.pdf is similar info for the Franklin V series pumps. I have not searched out what is different between J and V series. I expect other good brands to have similar performance. What is nice about these documents is they offer both the classic pump curves, they also offer the tables that are easier for the less experienced people to read. With the pump curves you need to compute your pressure (at 0.434 PSI per foot) as a head and add that to the water depth.

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Boyblue

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Awesome, thanks. I've been getting water off my parents (next door for years) so, I might go with the 15gpm so that when their 3/4 Goulds goes I can open the gate valve between us and supply them without issue.
 

Valveman

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I stayed up late last night researching CPV's and it's amazing they're not in common use. Any particular reason you didn't reccomend the CSV125?
Is having that much variability in the pressure setting worth the price difference especially when the CSV125 has the popular 40, 50 & 60 settings?

I cahtted with "D" on the CSV chat line it seemd that a jet pump is prefered, does the CSV's work better with jet pumps? Or was it this particular application...The second house that I mentioned (maximum likely demand is 6GPM) I would prefer to get a 10GPM submersible and using the CSV125 with a 2 gallon tank. The well is 20ft x 6in and has 15' 6" of water would you go with a 1/2 hp or 3/4 hp pump? And does the tank size really matter 2 vs 4.4?

Although they have better flow characteristics and will work fine, the plastic CSV’s are not recommended for indoor installation unless you make an allowance for a possible leak. Bad water quality can cause them to leak a gallon or so a week, so it is recommended they be installed outside, or over a drip pan or drain like a water heater.

Also the old model CSV1.25/50 has a 3 GPM minimum, made for cooling 3HP and 5HP submersibles. This means they will need a larger tank as it will be filled at 3 GPM, and the pump will slowly cycle while using a 2.5 GPM shower head.

The new model CSV12550-1 has a 1 GPM minimum, which will work with a small tank and will not cycle for a 2.5 GPM shower head. They work fine with jets or submersibles. They just need to be installed in a place where a small leak won’t hurt anything if it develops.

The CSV1A is adjustable and will not leak on the floor. But it cost more and doesn’t have as good of flow characteristics. You probably can’t see the difference between the two with a 15 GPM pump.

Either will work with a 2.2 gallon tank, but that only holds ½ gallon of water. That is the bare minimum you can get away with, which is why I recommend the 4.4 gallon tank that holds 1 gallon of water.
 

Boyblue

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Although they have better flow characteristics and will work fine, the plastic CSV’s are not recommended for indoor installation unless you make an allowance for a possible leak. Bad water quality can cause them to leak a gallon or so a week, so it is recommended they be installed outside, or over a drip pan or drain like a water heater.

Also the old model CSV1.25/50 has a 3 GPM minimum, made for cooling 3HP and 5HP submersibles. This means they will need a larger tank as it will be filled at 3 GPM, and the pump will slowly cycle while using a 2.5 GPM shower head.

The new model CSV12550-1 has a 1 GPM minimum, which will work with a small tank and will not cycle for a 2.5 GPM shower head. They work fine with jets or submersibles. They just need to be installed in a place where a small leak won’t hurt anything if it develops.

The CSV1A is adjustable and will not leak on the floor. But it cost more and doesn’t have as good of flow characteristics. You probably can’t see the difference between the two with a 15 GPM pump.

Either will work with a 2.2 gallon tank, but that only holds ½ gallon of water. That is the bare minimum you can get away with, which is why I recommend the 4.4 gallon tank that holds 1 gallon of water.
 

Boyblue

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With all of the savings I'm probably going to go with the CSV1A. This wil allow me to adjust to a reasonable rate on site. What's the down side with the flow characteristics. Also can I make up all of the connections out of schedule 40 PVC?
 

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With all of the savings I'm probably going to go with the CSV1A. This wil allow me to adjust to a reasonable rate on site. What's the down side with the flow characteristics. Also can I make up all of the connections out of schedule 40 PVC?

At 15 GPM the CSV1A will have 7 PSI friction loss compared to 1 PSI with the CSV125. You will never even notice 7 PSI difference so the CSV1A is probably best.

And yes SCH 40 is fine.
 

Boyblue

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At 15 GPM the CSV1A will have 7 PSI friction loss compared to 1 PSI with the CSV125. You will never even notice 7 PSI difference so the CSV1A is probably best.

And yes SCH 40 is fine.
Man! you're killing me here. You're giving me too many good choices. But the good thing is I've already decided I prefer the variability. What is the friction head loss in feet of the CSV1A?

I will also need the friction head loss in feet for the CSV12550-1 I'm about 90% there on wether to use it on my parent's setup. The other option I'm considering is the CSV12560-1. Too bad the the adjustable 125 only goes down to 3gpm.
 

Tom Sawyer

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I hate jet pumps and would never use one where I could drop in a sub. A sub never needs priming, can produce way more pressure, and uses half the electricity. A sub also eliminates motor cooling issues and noise.

I cannot think of any plusses for a jet.
I can. When it dies in the middle of January with 5' of snow on the ground, it's a whole helluva lot easier to change.
 

Boyblue

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The adjustable CSV2W can be made with any size bypass. You just have to order it with a 1 GPM bypass if that is what you want.
The CSV2W is your reccomendation for the Apartment building OK THANKS 1-50 GPM with adjustable PSI perfect.

I see that the friction loss from the CSV's is direct and is not to be calculated like all of the other fittings. Right?

Don't know if I should put this in a new thread???

The Proposed system layout for my home. Please give suggestions on changes:

Water supply for 15 GPM System (Everything is PVC unless otherwise indicated)
Submersible Pump with appropriate adapter set 24" off the bottom of the 20' x 6" well
1-1/2" pipe to the well head
1-1/2" Galvanized male adapter (holding the weight of pump & pipe through well cap)
1-1/2" Threaded Tee (Sideways)
1-1/2" Threaded plug on top
1-1/2" Male adapter out the side of tee & pointed toward house
3" piece of 1-1/2" pipe (leave 1" between fittings)
1-1/2" Male adapter
1-1/2" Check Valve
1-1/2" Male adapter
3" piece of 1-1/2" pipe (leave 1" between fittings)
1-1/2" 90°
1-1/2" pipe to ground (actually just below)
1-1/2" 90°
30' piece of 1-1/2" pipe to house
1-1/2" 90°
1-1/2" PVC Pipe up to 36" above ground
1-1/2" x 1-1/4" female adapter
CSV1A
1-1/2" x 1-1/4" female adapter
6" piece of 1-1/4" pipe
1-1/4" 90°
2" piece of 1-1/4" pipe (leave no space between fittings)
1-1/4" Union
2" piece of 1-1/4" pipe (leave no space between fittings)
1-1/4" x 3/4" Tee (3/4" looking up) is to be reduced for pressure switch)
3" piece of 1-1/4" pipe (leave 1" between fittings)
1-1/4" x 3/4" Tee (3/4" looking up) is to be reduced for pressure gauge)
2" piece of 1-1/4" pipe (leave no space between fittings)
1-1/4" x 3/4" Tee (3/4" looking out) for relief valve
2" piece of 1-1/4" pipe (leave no space between fittings)
1-1/4" x 1" Tee (1" looking down) for 4.4 gallon tank
3" piece of 1-1/4" pipe (leave 1" between fittings)
1-1/4" Gate Valve
3" piece of 1-1/4" pipe (leave 1" between fittings)
1-1/4" x 3/4" 90°
3/4" pipe To the House
 
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Reach4

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While planning things, you might want to search for the term "tank tee" in your favorite search engine. I did not follow your BOM, but it is possible that you could find a tank tee to simplify things. Maybe not..
 

Boyblue

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While planning things, you might want to search for the term "tank tee" in your favorite search engine. I did not follow your BOM, but it is possible that you could find a tank tee to simplify things. Maybe not..

The tank tee is a special order $45.00, the fittings it replaces cost $12.00. In addition I prefer things spread out a bit more than the tee has them.

With a 20' well, is one check valve at the well head enough?
Is it ok to put a union before the CSV and should I put another one after the gate valve?
I'm hanging the storage tank and I plan to support it with a block or something, is this necessary considering it will be hanging from PVC?
 
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