American Standard Cadet 3 Three Toilet consumer product review

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by LaNor, Feb 25, 2007.

  1. Lancejackson

    Lancejackson New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Ontario
    still splashing

    I replaced my splashing Cadet 3 yesterday with a new toto drake (elongated 2 piece). Believe it or not, it also splashes. I just do not understand what is causing this to happen. I am either the unluckiest guy in the world or I notice what others do not.
  2. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    Messages:
    2,780
    Location:
    USA
    Lance. Mine does not splash. I notice these things. Believe me. I have obsessive compulsive disorder.

    Is is splashing back from flushing or just when you pee in it?
  3. achutch

    achutch New Member

    Messages:
    193
    Location:
    Vermont
    Lance,

    You must be having a run of bad luck. My Cadet 3, which I've described above doesn't splash. I also have a Drake which came out of the box flawless just as the pros here like Terry and Redwood said it would. My Drake in the 2.5 years it's been in place has never splashed. To compare the two, I took a hand mirror and looked at the rim holes underneath. The Drake's rim is lined with perfect circles. The flush is straight down with a nice satisfied gulp! Nothing comes back, not even a splash!

    What kind of a splash are you getting from your Drake, and where is it hitting?

    On another note, I have moved back to the Mountain for the season, and my two ancient (1950's) Eljer toilets (one a 5 gallon siphon jet with a additional jet assisted swirl, and the other, pictured above, a 7 gallon gusher with forward trap married to a "Standard" tank) are seeing to my needs.

    My Drake and my Cadet 3 win hands down in performance!!!!!

    I often have to flush twice with the 5 gallon siphon jet because it chews and spits back paper, and less often with the "washdown" bowl (which swishes almost violently). BUT, water here is free and the Eljer bowls are the tallest I've ever had for a round front bowl. So, I guess I'll keep them (at least for now.....)!

    achutch
  4. fips

    fips New Member

    Messages:
    1
    my cadet 3 experience

    Hi All,

    First I want to thank Terry for this forum and everyone for posting. I found this site invaluable in selecting and installing a unit to replace a 40 year old toilet in my home this past week.

    I had been reviewing manufacturers & models for a while and based on the recent wave of posts on the Cadet 3 I decided to give it a try. I bought the all-in-one kit, round bowl. Based on recent posts, here are my findings regarding the most common issues I saw posted.

    1) Glazing quality/finish :
    I did not open the box prior to leaving the store, but scrutinized over the unit when I got it home. Honestly my first reaction was one of concern. The unit was packed well, but when I pulled out the bowl, I found three areas of glazing that looked dark, rough, and messy, as if they had glazed over a dirty unit. Then I realized that these were all at the points one might hold the unit while lifting it. I'm not sure what the workers had on their hands but these marks required some soapy water and some good rubbing to get off. The glazing was actually fine in these areas. It was just dirty hand prints that had baked on during storage and transport. I did find areas on the bottom of the bowl unit (the undermost surface facing the floor and not normally exposed to water), where it appeared that glazing might have been missed and the material had been spot sealed with some type of rubberized sealant.

    Marks/malformations:The only mark was a small dimple on the front edge of the tank lid that is visible if you crouch down to eye level with the lid, but not when you look down from the height of a normal adult while entering the bathroom.

    2) Tank to Bowl, and lid to tank fit:
    I had read that some people were very concerned about the tank feeling loose after tightening. The plastic bag that held the tank nut wrench (yes, this kit includes everything necessary to install) stated that the tank should be tightened until the tank met and contacted the front and back of the bowl. I carefully aligned the rubber gasket and even squeezed it into the place, and then began tightening. When I started tightening, the gap was at least 3/8 inch. I went back and forth and I'll admit I got worried, as it took a little bit of effort to tighten each nut. I actually bent over and rested some of my weight on the top of the tank (chest resting on open tank) to compress the rubber ring, and these seemed to help a bit. So, I took about 10 minutes just to do this, but just as they stated, I was able to bring both the front and back into contact and once I did not feel any motion when I tried to gently rock the tank back and forth, I stopped tightening. The tank feels very firm on the toilet and there is no gap along the junction where the tank and bowl meet.
    Also I found that the tank lid fit very well, and was very stable, on the tank.

    3) Toilet flush effectiveness and splash:
    As others have noted, the toilet has a quick efficient flush, that is relatively quiet (very subjective area). I did notice a bit of a "gulp" at the beginning of the flush where it seemed a little air was escaping, and wondered whether my bathroom DWV had been vented properly. Since the previous old toilet did not exhibit this, I think it is just a result of the rapid flush.
    Although I did not notice any large scale splashing that might result in the seat getting wet, I did sit down and flush as a test, and found that I remained dry.

    4) Comfort:
    I bought the regular round bowl unit. The height of the bowl is 15 inches, one inch taller than the unit I replaced. So even though I didn't get the taller unit, this toilet is taller and more comfortable than the unit it replaced.

    5) Overall Conclusion: Overall, my experience was good, and although I found that the finish of the unit did not match that of the 1967 unit I replaced, it is completely adequate (the expected visible areas are all finished well) and the unit is attractive, solid feeling and works well.

    I would also consider replacing my other toilet with this. One thing to note is that if you have an older home where they didn't paint behind the tank, the new smaller tanks will force you to break out a paint brush, but that is to be expected with any newer, smaller toilet.

    Although the Cadet 3 unit has worked out fine, I do think American Standard should improve quality of the unit, and get them packed without dirty hand prints on them, because I wouldn't be surprised if possibly some of the others' comments about flaws in the finish were these baked on dirty hand prints. Also since the packaging of my unit was fine I believe these marks were made at the packing facility, not due to a return. I would happily spend a little more to have overall better finish and a clean unit.
  5. nashkato

    nashkato New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    Cadet 3 = inexpensive 10" rough-in option

    For anyone needing a 10" rough-in, the Cadet 3 is a good choice. I'm happy with the flush performance and you can't best the 1000 on the MaP tests. Mine does not splash. It was a little tricky to find what I needed. I wanted round front and regular height since this would be used by my young children. I went with 2384.010 (3011 bowl, 4019 tank). To get this I had to buy a white bowl from Lowes (HD had only elongated or bone for RF) and the tank from HD. Neither store had both! Total cost was only about $130. Note that HD is selling the tank as for a 12" "compact elongated" but it works in several applications. (Thank goodness for the AS website to know the exact model numbers.) I put a Champion round "EverClean" seat on it (5285) because I wanted to stick with AS and it was the only choice in stores. Seems OK not special.

    I needed a 10" rough-in unit and this was about the only thing I could get without special ordering and/or spending a bundle. For instance, I had a new Kohler Wellworth in my last house (which was fair not great). Since they make a 10" Wellworth I thought I might try that--too much money and special order for mediocre performance. I prefer to buy at my indy plumbing supply house vs HD/Lowes but they don't stock AS. I had already purchased a Toto Drake from them before measuring the rough (doh!) so that will go in another bathroom now (the others do have 12" rough!). Also, I had to add 1" of flange spacers and do some mortar repair around the flange due to the hack job by the original builders, so I was nervous about using the Toto adapters to make something else fit the 10" space.

    Derek
  6. jgilliam1955

    jgilliam1955 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    I installed mine a few months ago & it works great. BUT just like your, it did not have a seat & had to go out & get one. So the quality control must be hit & miss.
  7. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    Messages:
    2,780
    Location:
    USA
    Silly old flapper

    My cadet 3 is almost two years old now. I recently went on vacation for two weeks and came home yesterday.

    When I turned the water back on, I could hear a drip coming from inside my Cadet 3. On closer inspection it appeared to be a very slight leak from the flapper which had developed a blister on the rubber.

    So, it was off to the DIY store today to buy a Korky flapper. They make one especially to fit the Cadet 3.

    I fitted the new one, and with some chain adjustment, the thing works smoother than ever.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 13, 2008
  8. achutch

    achutch New Member

    Messages:
    193
    Location:
    Vermont
    The blistered flapper seems to be an issue, doesn't it? My Cadet 3 has been in since March, and my water has chloramine in it (a big controversy within my regional water district over use of chloramine vs chlorine). It might be worth replacing the original flapper now with the Korky before trouble starts (or at least have one on hand).

    Thanks for the heads up, Ian.

    achutch

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2009
  9. kibosh

    kibosh New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Hi all,

    I would first like to thank everyone for this forum I have found it very informative!

    I do have a question of my own . . . I just installed a Cadet 3 in my house on Saturday and I find that the flapper seems to close very quickly. Almost too quickly. The toilet just doesn't seem to "sound" right. Is this normal for this toilet? The performance does seem to be there it is just that the flushing action seems to end abruptly (the flapper only takes about a second, if that, to close and appears to be weighted). I adjusted the water level almost to the top of the overflow vent and adjusted the chain so that it is taught. I am used to a flapper that has a "floater" on it to help it stay open for a while.

    Perhaps this is just how this toilet is but it does seem odd to me.

    Any advice is appreciated!

    Thanks,

    Kibosh
  10. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    Messages:
    2,780
    Location:
    USA
    Your chain might be too taught or too slack. Slacken it off a little or try tightening it. Cadet 3s are very sensitive to the right chain adjustment.

    Too far one way or the other has caused me problems.
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,892
    Location:
    New England
    The low flow toilets do NOT sound like the old ones...the flush is quite fast and they do NOT empty the tank. So, as long as it flushes the wastes, it's probably the new normal...you'll get used to is quickly. Because they only use a small amount of water, refill is much quicker, too.
  12. kibosh

    kibosh New Member

    Messages:
    3
    OK . . . thanks for the responses. I actually replaced a low flow (6L American Standard Marina) which was completely useless but it didn't sound like this one. The sound is like a whoosh with an abrupt gurgle almost like how an old toilet would sound if you didn't press the lever all the way down.

    Man that old toilet was bad!
  13. kibosh

    kibosh New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Another thought on this . . . I failed to mention that my tank is insulated. This obviously does not allow as much water in the tank as a non-insulated version. Perhaps this is an issue? If it is, can the insulation be removed (I know it can be removed but will it cause any damage to the tank)?
  14. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,892
    Location:
    New England
    Modern toilets do not empty the tank upon flushing, so it probably wouldn't make any difference. Now, to get the required flush volume, the closing of the flush valve (normally a flapper) must be calibrated to the specific toilet. Yours may not be working properly in that regard.
  15. groundHog

    groundHog New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Cadet3 Continues to Impress Me

    Our Cadet3 has never splashed any water. Anywhere. And I flush sitting down. :rolleyes:

    Our Cadet3 has been in service for a year or so now, and the only problems I've had was the flapper gasket got blisters (but I did flip the gasket over and re-install), and a piece of lime got caught in the fill valve and caused the valve to stick. These two problems, which I consider normal wear, just surfaced in the last month.

    The real news, for me, was that the fill valve assembly in the Cadet3 is serviceable, not a throwaway. I was able to take the valve apart, get the offending piece of lime out, re-install, and it works fine again. And the flapper is not a throwaway either, the gasket can be replaced.

    Remarks from plumbers notwithstanding, this DIY homeowner continues to be impressed with the Cadet3 toilet. It's a flushing wonder.

    - djb
    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2009
  16. jkj

    jkj New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Georgia
    Can someone tell me what the item number is for the home depot 4019.016 bowl he is reffering to? Im guessing its around 70 bucks from his total cost here. I just want to be able to go pick it up or get lowes to price match it.

    From what I found out the tank is 112.50 from both lowes and home depot. The bowl is 61 from lowes. That is 173.50+tax so kinda far from the $130 Derek quoted above me.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2008
  17. Macawmom

    Macawmom New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    NJ
    Rim Holes in Cadet Three Toilet

    Hi, I've been reading this forum for more than two months now. I have an 11-1/8" rough-in in my powder room that we're redoing. I did go to a Toto showroom, a "Toto gold" showroom, and I told the sales lady I really wanted a Toto Drake. When she asked what my rough in is, she told me that it will not fit in that space. I am not an experienced plumber if it would need to be squeezed in to fit, I would not know how to cheat space. I saw that many others with a small rough in have been going with the AS Cadet 3, which is what she recommended. I did end up going to my local plumbing supply house, not a big box store, taking the advice of many here. I got a Cadet 3 elongated, right height toilet. I opened it today and looked it over well and here is what I found. In the bottom of the bowl was a blue dye mark. This rubs off and should be okay. I checked and the bowl is level from side to side. From front to back it is a little off level. But when I took a mirror to under the rim, I found that the holes are all different sizes. Is this what others found? I have a few holes that are about 1/2" wide, and most of the others, including directly across from the large ones, are more like 1/16" wide. I don't know which is correct as I never looked under the rims of my old toilets, all pre-1975. Are these holes big enough or will I have flushing problems? I would think that if there are some big holes and some small holes for the flushing design, there would be the same number of each on each side of the toilet. Advice, please. Thanks.

    Macawmom in NJ
  18. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,889
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    You know, I've never looked with a mirror at the flush rim holes in the Cadet.

    It's funny that the showroom didn't know specs on the Toto.
    The Drake will install at 10-7/8"
  19. Macawmom

    Macawmom New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    NJ
    Thanks for answering, Terry. I didn't realize that the Drake could fit at under 11". I thought you previously said you needed 11-1/4 or 11-1/2. I can not recall which correctly now. Do you think the holes be uniform? I'm curious what others who have the Cadet 3 and have checked the rim holes have seen.

    Macawmom in NJ
  20. rontarbert

    rontarbert New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Florida
    Korky Cadet 3 flapper

    I experienced the problem with blisters on the flapper casket last year and AS sent new flappers (I have two Cadet 3's). The replacements developed the same problem after several months. I have been bursting the blisters as an interim repair. I was happy to learn that Korky finally has a replacement flapper and went today to Home Depot to buy one. I noticed that the only three on display had been opened & repackeged. I asked the clerk if he knew why the flappers were returned. He stated that people open packages all the time and that if I had a problem I could just return it. Now I know why -- they don't work. You can't just push the lever to flush -- you must hold it down. The flapper closes imediately after you release the lever. The package clearly states that it is a replacement for Cadet 3 and includes the toilet model number that I have.

    [​IMG]
    Blisters develop on the black rubber seal.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2009
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