American Standard Cadet 3 Three Toilet consumer product review

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by LaNor, Feb 25, 2007.

  1. bcgrote

    bcgrote New Member

    Jun 10, 2009
    14" rough in????

    We REALLY need a new toilet, our 70's era Norton just can't handle my ladylike eliminations! :eek:

    I like the price and the coating on the Cadet 3, as well as the flushing power, and I think I can DIY any adjustments needed in the tank, no sweat.

    I measured our current toity to make sure I get a replacement that fits. I measured the rough in distance from the wall to the floor bolts, as I saw on another site. Ummm, I got 14"!!! Is this going to cause a problem with stability? Will I have a 2 inch gap between the toilet and the wall, or ugly lines on my bathroom floor?

    I'm going to have the toilet installed by my favorite plumber, after we check and purchase the all in one single unit Cadet 3 ourselves. Could we be in for a HUGE expense regarding subflooring and tile replacement that makes replacing Mrs. Norton unaffordable?
  2. kingsotall

    kingsotall Plunger/TurdPuncher

    Aug 17, 2008
    Hand copper part cleaned ready to go
    Flagstaff, AZ Sitting on an upside down 5 gallon b
    I for one have never believed the wall is supposed to add any support to a toilet. Just the two tank bolts. I have seen too many toilets away from the wall to think that the wall is supposed to have a necessary part in regards to the toilet.
  3. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Sep 2, 2004
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    New England
    Depending on what's on the floor now, and how it was installed, replacing the toilet may not leave any evidence from the old one, or it could be a major pain. If you install a standard 12" rough toilet , you'll have a big gap behind it. If you buy a 14" toilet, unless it is a Toto model that uses the UniFit adapter, they typically just put a thicker tank on it, and it sticks out further into the room. Toto is the only one that uses the same toilet, and moves it forward or back by selecting the needed adapter (hidden underneath the toilet).
  4. bcgrote

    bcgrote New Member

    Jun 10, 2009
    14" roughness...

    It's good to know that the wall isn't adding stability, but scary to think that a heavy porcelain tank is only supported by those 2 bolts... Especially in earthquake country! If I had small kids, it would be a definite NO. Hmm, are 2 grown men equivalent to a toddler? LOL!

    I called my local Lowe's, and the price they offered for the Cadet 3 in 14" was only about fifty bucks more than their current shelf price for the 12 inch standard... PHEW!!! Looking online, the 14 inch was DOUBLE the price of the 12!!!

    The salesman REALLY tried to push the "comfort height" ADA taller toilet, but we all have short legs, and it would NOT be helpful to have a taller toilet. The body is more efficient on a shorter one, so thankfully we didn't have to go there!

    I guess I'll HAVE to special order, but the guy at Lowe's says he locked in that price for me for 48 hours. I guess I can live for a few more days with what we have.
    OH! Does anyone know if the special coating on the Cadet 3 is all through the inside as well as the outside? Apparently we are having to replace this toilet because of hard water build up over 35 years reducing the pipe size! :eek:

    (We measure the water here on the Mohs scale, it's so hard! LOL, and LA claims to have the 3rd best water in the nation? Haha, maybe BEFORE it goes through the ancient pipes!)
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Aug 17, 2004
    Bothell, Washington
    Since the bowl on the 14" cadet is the same as the 12"
    you may as well go with the cheaper of the two.

    Unless you switch brands, the bowl is just going to be sitting out a long way from the wall.
  6. Rich B

    Rich B DIY Senior Member

    Sep 13, 2008
    New Jersey
    I need two 14" toilets and was going to buy the Cadet 3's until I read this thread. I need all the room in front of the toilet I can get as the bathroom is a 5x8. What Model Toto's are the best choice for a 14" rough in? I also see that there might be an issue with the location for the water supply line for one of these Toto's. I have an older American std, round front 12'" now in one bathroom and it sits well away from the wall. I have a shelf unit covering the area but would really like to get one that sits closer to the wall......and elongated.....What Toto do you suggest Terry that fits my "low budget" nature......LOL
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2009
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Aug 17, 2004
    Bothell, Washington
  8. Rich B

    Rich B DIY Senior Member

    Sep 13, 2008
    New Jersey
    Thanks for that info Terry it is very helpull. I think I will buy 2 Toto Vespins........
  9. gascolator

    gascolator New Member

    Jun 28, 2009
    My Cadet 3 has just been too much work to own to buy another.

    The really cheap fill valve when bad after less than six months. I didn't
    feel too bad about that because the thing was pretty scary anyway---
    I'm partial to Fluidmasters. I just regretted not having done the job
    when the toilet was new and dry, as the mechanism had "failure"
    written all over it.

    But now I'm getting the flush valve leak issue.

    Finding a replacement may entail taking time off work, since neither
    Lowes nor Home Depot bother to stock the OEM parts for what they
    sell. They'd probably rather just sell you a whole new toilet, anyway.

    I did try buying the Korky replacement, but it's enough narrower than
    the 'ears' on the flush seal/overflow assembly that it may or may not
    seat in the proper position to avoid leaking

    Too bad Fluidmaster doesn't seem to make the whole of the flush
    mechanism for a 3" toilet.

    Also too bad nobody sells just the rubber gasket for the flapper.

    The only way a toilet should consume this much time is when you're
    sitting on it and reading. And darn it, I want "standard" (not "American
    Standard" parts that I can pick up in any store.

    The black rubber on the Cadet 3 Flapper starts to blister, this one is six months old.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 21, 2009
  10. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    Jul 24, 2007
    Robber, with some DIY on the side.
    They are all relatively standard and easily found. I pimped my Cadet 3 big time using only parts from the big box store. A Korky fill valve and flapper, a new handle. They were all there.

    Stay away from the original flapper. That was the only design flaw and one I can happily live with now I have discovered Korky replacement parts.

    It goes like a dream.
  11. jdatbs77

    jdatbs77 New Member

    Jul 13, 2009
    AS Cadet 3 two piece standard height

    I installed one of these in my small bathroom, replacing a round bowl Eljer. Installation was a snap. Turned on the water and was amazed at how fast it flushed and refilled, and quietly, too. At first you may think something is wrong because you don't have the typical swirling water in the bowl when you flush it, but it's been about two weeks and this unit has taken everything that we can give it without a problem. Cost out the door with wax ring and slow-close seat: $***.** I highly recommend this unit.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2009
  12. jdatbs77

    jdatbs77 New Member

    Jul 13, 2009
    Cadet 3 cleaning

    I have not had any problems keeping this unit clean. I put a Clorox hockey puck in the tank and have yet to have to scrub the bowl, although I will give it a polish once a month. If you are having problems with waste stains on the sides of your bowl, drink more water and practice centering yourself on the seat. :)
  13. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Dec 15, 2007
    Service Plumber
    The added chlorine in the water from these hockey pucks is very detrimental to the service life of rubber parts in the tank. In fact they are so bad for the parts that using them voids the warranty on every major brand of toilet that I can think of....

    I would suggest immediately removing the hockey puck from the tank is your best course of action and if you must use a bowl cleaner install the Fluidmaster Flush~N~Sparkle system. The cleaner bypasses the tank and goes directly to the bowl so damage to the rubber components is averted.

    Click here for information on the Fluidmaster Flush~N~Sparkle system
  14. cyborg28

    cyborg28 New Member

    Jul 16, 2009
    Terrible experience with what should be a great toilet.

    At the beginning of June I purchased a Regular 12" rough Cadet 3 - 2 piece toilet from Lowe's in Toronto. When I got home I realized that the
    tank was not lined (and the bowl was already installed) so I returned the tank to Lowe's and got a Lined Tropic Cadet 3 Tank from Home Depot
    (Lined Cadet 3 tanks not stocked by Lowes I think. I realize none of the above is American Standard's fault).

    The bowl did not sit evenly on the floor (previous American Standard Marina toilet was fine) and required a large amount of torque on the
    bolts to stabilize. The toilet bowl loosened frequently and wobbled and require re-tightening to the closet flange.

    The Tropic Cadet 3 tank flushed well but the handle often got stuck down (flapper open), causing the toilet to run. Also the valve that lets water into the tank sometimes got stuck down, causing water to run out the overflow.

    After 3 weeks of trying to adjust the tank I returned it to Home Depot and purchased a normal Cadet 3 Lined tank. This tank works well and has
    none of the above problems.

    One week after installing the new tank, the toilet was wobbling more and started to leak between the bowl / wax ring / floor. I removed the
    tank and toilet and set it on several different flat surfaces. The toilet wobbled on all surfaces, including the poured concrete slab in
    the return department at Lowe's. After some arguing about not taking used toilets I finally exchanged the initial Cadet 3 12" regular height
    round front bowl for another one at Lowe's.

    The new bowl which I installed, sits perfectly on my bathroom floor but seems oddly shaped and requires much more water to flush properly than
    the previous bowl. I had to increase the water level in the tank to max and shorten the flush chain in order to get it to empty "solid" waste.
    The main hole where the flush water enters the bowl at the bottom is not symmetrical, the exit hole at the bottom where the wax ring goes is not round
    and one edge of the bottom of the toilet is a smooth curve while the other side is bumpy. Also the wholes around the rim of the bowl that wash the bowl are very uneven (by water flow pattern, have not seen them first hand).

    Is it normal for a toilet bowl to be so misshapen? It seems to affect the performance of what was supposed to be an efficient toilet. I have
    been through a total of 5 pieces and 3 installs to get a stable toilet and do not want to have to do it again, but the toilet seems to need a
    lot of water to flush and does a much worse job of flushing than I was accustomed to with the previous bowl (still not bad in the grand scheme).

    Can / should I get a new bowl? Do properly made Cadet 3 Bowls exist? My two were made in the Dominican Republic. The Tanks made in Mexico. This entire experience has been an exercise in frustration.

    I have installed many American Standard products in the past, most recently a Colony fit right toilet that was perfect out of the box and a
    morning vessel sink and Marina (I think) acrylic tub and not had any problems. (I did have a warranty request for a part for a marina toilet,
    but it turned out to be debris in the fill valve)

    I was shocked that the Cadet 3 was so much worse than the Colony.
  15. mrobrien

    mrobrien New Member

    Aug 10, 2009
    Bad Cadet 3 experience

    About a month ago, a toilet flooded our house (partial clog and stuck flapper) causing over $50,000 of damage. The plumber said that this was an older toilet that was made shortly after the 1.7 GPF law, when they didn't know how to make them with any amount of force.

    So my wife and I set out to buy three toilets to replace our older flood-prone toilets. We got three Cadet 3 Flowwise toilets from Lowes and installed one.

    I am sad to say that on the third flush of solid waste, the darn thing clogged requiring a plunger. And not to be graphic, but it really wasn't that much to flush.

    We had a plumber at our house today to install a WaterCop valve and had him look at our toilet line and he said that everything is clear. His verdict was that the Cadet 3 just wasn't a good toilet. We did get the 1.3 GPF Flowwise model which may make a difference.

    Anyhoo... we are returning the toilets to Lowes and I just purchased three Toto Drakes.
  16. Stephjam

    Stephjam New Member

    Aug 13, 2009
    Cadet 3, Toto Drake, or Kohler?

    I was seriously considering installing a couple of American Standard compact Elongated Cadet 3 toilets in my house which will be a very pleasant upgrade from a couple of terrible peerless toilets, but now I'm hesitant after reading quite a few of the posts in this forum and speaking to a plumber the other day. A local plumber said he was not a big fan of the American Standard Cadet and preferred the Kohler Cimaron. My 3rd toilet in the house, which I'm not replacing, is a Kohler that was in place when I bought the house 8 years ago and it has been great compared the the sorry Peerless toilets. I was leaning toward the compact EL Cadet 3 due to space and budget contraints as well as Home Depot's in store ratings on performance.

    From what I read on this thread, it seems as though the Toto brand is the toilet preferred by many plumbers as well as homeowners. What really puzzles me is that if that is the case then why would it be that my local home improvement centers don't appear to carry the Toto brand? (Lowes & Home Depot in Atlanta). I did some research and I can order the Toto Drakes from a local supply house at a reasonable price. I would probably end up spending and extra $100 per toilet.

    I'm a DIY type of guy, and although this is my first time replacing toilets, I have already pulled the old toilets to be replaced, because I just had new bath floors installed, and will likely install the new toilets myself so if I have to make minor repairs to the toilets down the road it's not a big deal as I've done this over the years for all the toilets in the house.

    Should I spend the extra money for the Toto Drakes or just go with the A.S. Cadet 3 compacts? They both seem to be about the same length which is a very important consideration in my small bathrooms. Also, are the Totos easier to install in tight spaces?
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2009
  17. Peanut9199

    Peanut9199 Customer Service Manager Plumbing Wholesale

    Apr 23, 2007
    Customer Service Manager Plumbing Wholesale
    Ontario, Canada
    It's not that they don't want to carry it (i get calls every day from big box stores) and we don't want to sell to them.

    The negatives from selling to big box stores outway the benifits and Toto is doing quite well without those sales.
  18. miracj

    miracj New Member

    Jun 24, 2009
    Computer Consultant
    Boston, Massachusetts, USA
    Not to disagree, but my experience is quite the opposite. I installed a Cadet 3 Flowise (1.28 gallon/flush) elongated, standard height, which has a 3" pipe to 4" toilet flange.

    I have one user that creates really hard, very large diameter (like 2 inches) waste and relatively long as well on a regular basis that would clog my previous toilet (1986 vintage) 2 out of 3 times.

    Another user fills the bowl on occasion with a large amount of waste (but not so hard) as well.

    Add to that the typical variety of things that have to flushed.

    While this is not a scientific sampling, I'd say it gives a good variety of test flushes to the Cadet 3 Flowise, which has yet to clog for me over it's 2 month usage so far.

    Assuming a good toilet unit (and I understand why a plumber goes with a Toto if it eliminates callbacks), for an individual DIY-er, I believe the Cadet 3 Flowise is a good, cost-effective choice. (Less than $275 from Lowe's)
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
  19. organic_smallhome

    organic_smallhome New Member

    Aug 10, 2009
    New Hampshire
    Just a thought: I believe that Toto makes toilets that cost as much as or less than $275 (the Dalton, perhaps?) that would be of higher quality than the Cadet 3.

    Of course, I don't really know what I'm talking about, since I've been learning about toilets for less than a week now. But based on my research. . .
  20. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Aug 17, 2004
    Bothell, Washington
    That's a fair statement.
    I sell the Dalton round front with high bowl for $185
    I had one installed in the home for a while.
    It worked well.
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