What to do if water in pipe when soldering?

1. Real rookie here, I did get a piece of copper and some fittings and try it out...still didn't work out very well for me. I don't know if the copper wasn't hot enough or what but the flux wasn't really sucking in to the joint. I did clean and flux but ends, then heat what I thought was a reasonable time.

2. Anyway...what do I do if I take the shower head or simmons valve off and there is water or moisture in the pipes? There is bound to be some in there eh?

Thanks.

flux

You "cleaned and fluxed the but ends"? What does that mean. You have to flux the entire surfaces that will fit together, not the end of the tubing. Flux does not "suck into" the joint. The flux helps the solder suck into the joint.

Get some tinning flux such as Oatey 95.

Deburr the outside of the pipe where you cut it so it slides easily into the fitting.

Clean the inside of the fitting and the outside of the pipe with emery cloth or a wire brush.

Put some flux in the fitting and on the outside of the pipe.

Insert the pipe fully into the fitting.

Set up the fitting so you don't have to hold it or the pipe because you will need both hands; one for torch and one for solder. Unroll 6 to 8 inches of solder and bend it if necessary to get access to the joint with the tip of the solder.

With full power of a standard torch, apply heat TO THE FITTING. On the side opposite where you apply heat, touch the solder to the tube and fitting until heat from the fitting and tube (not the torch flame) melts the solder.

Withdraw the heat and apply solder around the joint between pipe and fitting. Apply a touch more heat if needed.

You can wipe the joint with a cloth to remove excess solder. You shouldn't move the joint until the solder hardens.

If there is water in the pipe at the joint it will be impossible to solder. The evaporating water carries away heat to prevent the fitting from reaching the melting point of the solder.

After you do the easy fittings, try some where the solder must flow upward.

Try not to get great globs of solder around the joint or into the fitting.

You clean about 1 1/2" of the end of the pipe and the entire inside of the fitting.Good idea to clean the rim of the fitting too.Apply flux to about 3/4" of the pie AND inside the fitting.As you heat, the flux will boil away and produce a bit of smoke, shortly after this, the joint will be ready for solder. Maintain the flame on the bottom of the joint and apply the solder from the top.If the solder begins to melt on top, it will flow throughout the joint.

A few drops of water in the pipe will soon boil away when the heat is applied.Move your flame along the pipe a bit to speed this up.As long as there is water in the pipe, or steam, the pipe will not get much hotter than 212*f, the boiling point of water. This is not hot enough to melt solder. As soon as the water is gone, the solder will flow.

Timing is everything, Bob. Beat me by a minute.

Use Bread to stop the water

hot dog buns are my favorate

Just make sure it's not 7 grain, it'll plug your airaitors (sp?)

bread works to stop flowing water.... but it only belongs in a sandwich

The advice that is given by these guys is sound... small amounts will go away, large amounts and your not soldering. good luck!


Dances-with-pumps

What about those gel capsules, jet-swets, and sharkbites. Maybe someone can explain when each is appropriate.

Jet Sweat

I fiddled around for years trying to use bread, gel bubbles and saddle valves. Until recently I found nothing that worked well in all cases. My worst case situation is on a concrete slab where you have to solder onto a vertical pipe that sticks out like 2" at the lowest point in the house.

In this case even with the outside supply off and the rest of the house drained it seems that water still seeps up the pipe. (in other words the pipe you are soldering to ends up with water in it. When that happens it is almost impossible to get everything heated properly for soldering. Bread never really works unless there is truly 0 pressure in the pipe.

Using a saddle valves directly below was about the only thing I had found that keeps the pipe dry.

Got myself a Jet-Sweat and now I don't dread these situations anymore. Sure it is rather expensive (I think I spent about $60 for mine), but I ended my frustration.

The Jet-sweat is a device which you shove in the fitting (sort of like you would bread) and then you tighten a bold and it forms a seal down in the pipe (kind of like a rubber test drain plug). When you are done soldering, you then remove the tool. Generally it is best to use it to solder in an in-line valve. Then the valve can be turned off to keep water out of the local line. But usually when I get a foot or so above the slab, the water seepage into the pipe isn't an issue.

With water in a riser coming out of a slab, use a piece of tubing. Push it down inside and put your finger on the end and pull it out with the water inside and repeat till water level is low enough to solder. Or you could blow out the water to another opening.

You sometimes have to be creative to figure out how to keep water away from the joint. Any water at all will turn to steam and prevent the joint from getting hot enough for the solder to flow into it. Be sure you read Bob NH's comments carefully. You heat the joint until it is hot enough to melt the solder when the solder it touch to a side away from the torch. You don't use the torch on the solder to melt it. When it comes to cleaning and fluxing, err on the side of overkill. Even brand new fittings must be cleaned with a brush or sandpaper and more of the pipe than will fit into the fitting should be cleaned also. There are special brushes for this purpose, but you can do OK with emery cloth or even just regular sandpaper. Smear the pipe end and the inside of the fitting with flux. Too much won't hurt a thing.

I've never heard of a jet sweat but I've used all the other techniques mentioned to get the water out of a pipe... the only one not mentioned that I've used is to actually siphon or suck the water out of a pipe with a straw.

water

Pasco makes a set of plugs similar to a Jet-Swet, but much cheaper, and it uses a cable and a "clamping" handle to expand it. Thus it can go around some corners. Instead of sucking the water out of the pipe, (if it is high enough then the siphon is better), just insert the tubing and blow through it. That pushes the water out of the pipe.

The jet sweat is a good investment for a pro, but for a DIY it's pricy. Two approaches I've used are compression valves to eliminate the sweating, and hooking up a 1/4 or 3/8 piece of copper tube to my shop vac (using duct tape), inserting that into the pipe a few inches past the fitting to be soldered and turning on the vac to suck out the water. First done in desperation in my Mom's first floor condo where I could shut off water to building, but didn't have access to units upstairs to open a faucet, so faced constant dribble.

compression fittings

I keep some 3/4 and 1/2 brass compression couplings
in my truck and they have saved me tons of greif over
the years...

their are many creative ways to use them

also a HOT ACETYLINE torch with a
large TURBO TORCH tip can ward off all water troubles...

the propane is just not hot enough and never seems to
get things soldered good....

the mapp gas is barely tolerable...


BREAD IS THE BEST PATH TO TAKE when all else fails...

those little sweat jet balls are worthless

and you never have them when you need them

The customer always has bread.....

just tell them that you need a mid morning snack...

Another slightly off topic tip for you guys.... Lots of us have pumps to pump water out of holes when doing plumbing in ditches. Out of convenience I stumbled into this rig I have. I also work on old boats and have lots of junk boat parts... was doing a repair job for a neighbor when suddenly we had this ditch full of water... grabbed the first thing I could to get it out and didn't want to drag out 200' of extension cord ... and I'm too lazy to dip out water. I had a jump start and a bilge pump from an old boat which I hooked to a hose pipe that I had cut the end off of... worked like a charm... now I'm coming up with this idea of using an electric fuel pump to suck the water out of those aggrivating pipes. They do make a big syringe looking thing to use to suck oil out of motors and hydraulic on vehicles... that could be a cheap investment too... like ya said... getting creative.

CREATIVE IDEAS--but no money in it

Randy ...what you are thinking of is
something i have wanted to do too.....

except useing it for draining water heaters

very --very-- quickly.....

I have been trying to visualize something that
you could just insert down into the top of the
water heater possibly through the t +p port opening
to siphon out all the water in a matter of a minute or two

the problem has been sucking up
lime or sediment to clog up the innards of the pump..

and getting something to work on normal house current


waiting for a heater to drain can take hours if it is in
the middle of someones house

it would have to work on normal current
and its not brain-surgery to figure out either...

just been too lazy to take the time to look around to
find the right pump and adapt it to garden hoses and then just do it...

couldent take more than a pump and some long washing
machine and garden hose


I doubt anyone would get rich trying to develope
something for the water heater change out market...



its like trying to re-invent the toilet seat....who cares...

I can't say anything about soldering that hasn't already been said, but getting water out of water heaters should be easy with an air compressor and a few 3/4" to 1/4" fittings. Blow air into the hot side and water will come out the cold side into a garden hose or just pipe if you like.

I did get the hot/cold thing right didn't I???

bob...

Mark... too often electricity is inconvenient or not available... that's why I've purchased lots of "rechargeable" power tools...and why I'm pretty happy with the bilge pump out of an old boat. Maybe you can come up with some New use for some other gizmo to help. I like Speedbumps air compressor idea and have used it a few times to blow water out of lines and to help empty water heaters. It certainly didn't take me long to learn to open the T&P when draining a WH. Letting it create a vaccum really slowed things down. If it has valves on the hot and cold sides then you don't also have to drain all the water from the hot water pipes in the house.

warning --thread drift.....

Well yes ....an air compressor would work if
the bottom of the heater isnt totally clogged up
with lime......and you dont have to play

"pattie cakes" for a half hour with the
drain valve on the bottom.

I am looking to make something simple,
and not sloppy.... like to drain out a 52 or 80 gallon
electric water heater on a slab home ...with no floor drain
in sight....

95 % drained out in two minutes...

no drips, spills, or errors....

no dragging in an air compressor.. ect......


something simple and easy and quick.....


guess I will have to make it myself
and retire on the millions I will get
for the inventioin.....

Hmmmm... lots of them transfer pumps around you can hook to a drill. Might work but I don't know that you would get the output you need. Still, you could hook a hose to one of them and run it down the cold or hot side (don't know which one????? I'd assume it would be best to run it down the cold side. I'd prefer a pump that didn't have to be primed... either way, you're looking at 45 min. to a couple of hours most likely. Just think how long it takes to pump 30 gallons of gas into your pick up truck ?????