NO WATER HELP!! Start CAP??

Hi all,

Thanks all for taking time to reply, As i got out of shower yesterday, as brushing my teeth NO WATER, ARGH!!

I have 1 1/2 HP Goulds 3 wire pump, Franklin 2823008110 Control Box, pressure switch is Square D with low pressure cut off, BTW well is 30GPM recovery and Static Pressure level is 35 ft, Well is 250 Ft deep. Pump hung @ 200 (not sure if all this matters but there all the Info I know) System is only 5 years old.

I measure the Voltage at Pressure switch 220v, and 220 @ line in of control box, I think that means the pressure switch is working, No pressure is tank @ this point, I manually lift the lever to bypass the auto when pressure gets too low and SLOW VERY SLOWLY the pressure rose. never to cut out pressure

I killed breaker and pressed reset on control box then breaker on and reset the button and it popped again< I think start CAP or run cap is bad
Start Cap says 105-125 MFD 220v ruun cap is 10 MFD

How do I test them and do I replace the whole control box??

Where do I find the caps or Control Box if they are bad or to test??? Home Depot?

Update

it appears as if I still build some pressure as long as its not drained fast so it looks like the motor is working

Am I right to say ots the control box for sure??

It is ore likely a pump problem, possibly the motor.

www.franklinelectric.com and then the AIM and find 4" service manual. They'll tell you how to troubleshoot the box and the motor.

Do you have a volt ohm meter?

bob...

If you are lucky enough for it to be a starting capacitor, starting relay, or both, replacing these will get your pump running again. Bad capacitors, relays, a burned pressure switch, or a busted bladder in the tank, are all symptoms of excessive cycling on and off. Once you get it running again, you should consider fixing the root problem, which is too many cycles per day. Otherwise, the bad capacitor is just warning you that your motor will be the next thing to go. 7 years is the average life of pump systems. The more times it cycles, the shorter the pumps life. The less cycles, the longer the pump will live.

was control box

I dod not think its cycling off and on alot

I have 85 gal tank, 18 gpm pump with my total head considered

well is 225 i think, static is 25 feet rise from well head to my crawl if like 5-10 feet tank has to draw down like 60 gals before calls for pump pump will have to run 2 mins before it fills tank again. I called gilds tech support
to size the tank and pump, I do irrigate my yard with this system.

30 gal min recovery with 18 gpm zones pump can do 18-20 max
1 1/2 hp goulds


I have cut off pressure @ 65 cut in at 45

how can I tell if its cycling off and on too much? what test can I do?

tank has to draw down like 60 gals before calls for pump

Click to expand...

Ten gallons would be more like it.

pump will have to run 2 mins before it fills tank again.

Click to expand...

That makes more sense. Two minutes would be a good time for a properly working system.

When you irrigate, do you notice the pump cycling or does it stay running throughout the zone?

bob...

If you have all the sprinkler zones set up so that the pump never shuts off, that is the best you can do. If the water level in the well never pulls down more than 90', that pump is putting out 20 or more GPM, then it will cycle while running 18 GPM zones. An 85 gallon tank only holds 21 gallons at 45/65. So it should only take about 1 minute to fill the tank. If your pump is putting out 20+ GPM, and your zones are set at 18 GPM, the pump is cycling. While running an 18 GPM zone, it should take about 10 minutes for the tank to fill to 65 and shut off the pump. Then you are still using 18 GPM, so the tank should be empty in about 1 minute, and the pump will restart. Watching a pump cycle ever 11 minutes is like waiting for water to boil, seems like it takes forever. Although, cycling ever 11 minutes is 130 cycles per day, or 3,927 cycles per month. Even running the irrigation only 6 hours a day, that is 33 cycles per day, or 990 cycles per month.

Cycling is usually what gets a control box. However, on rare occasions, the box is destroyed by lightning, or power surges.

Depending on the pumping level in the well, you may have to add a head or increase the sprinkler nozzle size to keep the pump from shutting off. Turn on a zone, if the pressure slowly climbs all the way to 65, I am guessing this happens in less than 10 minutes, then you need to add more GPM to the zone.

It is very hard to exactly match the zones to the pump. Especially if the water level in the well starts out high, and pulls down considerably before the zones have finished.

thanks for the info, I will test it over the weekend my pup must be putting out more than 20 gpm as I do not think my static level every goes down much
so much for tech support before I bought the thing

she said I may have to increase the head but not b/c of this because of up thrusting

is the easiest way to increase the head to put a value between my tank and well?

I thought I watched the tank when irrigation was on, I guess I have to pay closer attention.

Thanks again i will let you know what I find out, for daily use do you think I am ok aside from irrigation?

I have 1 1/4 poly pipe all way from pump to the tank, 1 inch main in my house and 3/4 distribution

As long as it is at least 20' to the static level, and you don't let the pressure get below 40 PSI, which is pumping about 28 GPM, that pump will not be in upthrust. To keep the pump from cycling you can either run more sprinklers or use bigger nozzles in the sprinklers you have, or you can throttle the pump with a valve. If you can set the valve at one position that works for all your sprinkler zones, you can just use a ball valve. A Cycle Stop Valve will keep the pump from cycling automatically, at any flow rate all the way down to 1 GPM. The CSV will even keep your pump from cycling when using water for showers and stuff in the house. Without a CSV, there is nothing you can do about the pump cycling while using water in the house but, this number of cycles is very small when compared to cycling while running an irrigation system.

It is hard on a pump system when you have the irrigation set up very close to the output of the pump. In this way it might take 10 minutes for the tank to fill and the pump to shut off but, then it quickly dumps the tank and restarts the pump before the motor has had time to cool down. Kind of like starting a car engine when it is still hot from overheating.

I have a similar problem. When I first turn on any water, like taking a shower, my pressure goes down to nothing and then the pump starts up in a few seconds and works normally, with normal flow and pressure, and seems to keep pumping normally. I suspect a capacitor problem too since there was a lightning strike to the transformer out at the road.

My question is how do I identify which capacitor is which and what meter readings do I look for when I test them?

I think this is a 3/4 horse 220v submersible about 320 feet down.

For what it's worth, the main shutoff contacts seem to be welded together so there has apparently been an over load or power surge.

Thanks for any and all advice.

Appleman

First, Valveman, I rally appreciate your taking the time to speak to me about this, I am sure I speak for loads of people who appreciate your time

Last night I had to press the reset button on my control box (The new one) to get it to work again, it has been fine since, I have a few questions


- Could my Low cut off pressure switch be bad?

- If I install a CSV, what size? I know would be 1.25 but what pressure?
Any particular brand you like ? Any site to buy?

- does it go between Tank and well?

Some more info on my setup

Pump is Goulds 18GS15412, Tank is Goulds V250 22.5 gal draw down, 50.8 gal max drawdown

here is how I have it setup

Tee V250
Well - 1 1/4-----|------- Tank ---- 1" PEX--- House
|
|---1 1/2 PVC ---- Ball Value -- Double Check -- Irrigation

So if I am understanding I can turn the Ball valve to increase the head to irrigation


What would you do CSV ir trun value?



Thanks again George

With a 45/65 pressure switch, that V250 tank only holds about 12 gallons of water. Choking back on the ball valve before the double check will not add more head to the pump. You need a ball valve at the well head before the lines tee to the house and irrigation. This is also the location to install a CSV. The ball valve will work if all your sprinkler zones are the same size. Then you can adjust the ball valve to keep the pump from cycling during the irrigation zones. If the zones are different size, a CSV will automatically control the output of the pump to match the usage. A 1" CSV, such as a CSV1-60 is the correct size for an 18 GPM pump. The CSV1W or CSV1Z will also work for this application. These valves have 1 1/4" male threads and 1" female threads on both ends. They can be plumbed 1" or 1 1/4" but, they are technically 1" valves.

no to doubt you, can I ask why it the location has to be at the well head?

In electrify, they would e the same point, so I guess plumbing is not the same, if it was it would make no difference if I put the csv in my crawl as opposed to the well head which is under a fake rock

on other question, if we suspect the pump is outputing 20 gals or more then 18gal csv would be too small, is the not correct?

Maybe I misunderstood your lay out. It looks like the line tees off at the well head. One line goes to the pressure tank and then to the house, while the other line goes to the ball valve, double check, and then to the irrigation. If you choke back the flow to the irrigation with the ball valve, or a CSV at that location, the restriction will cause the excess water to go to the pressure tank. The pressure in the tank increases and the pump shuts off, which is what causes cycling.

When you restrict the line with a valve at the well head, before the line tees, you are increasing the head only on the pump. This will decrease flow to the irrigation, without the tank receiving the excess flow, which will eliminate the cycling. The valve has to be before any lines tee off.

There is no 18 GPM CSV. The 1" CSV is the smallest made, and will work with pumps up to 25 GPM.

ok sorry for the confusion so as long as I get the csv before any tee I can put in in my crawl here is line drawing if my setup

Well head -- Line to crawl -- tee then one leg of tee goes to the tank other to irrigation

The Tee and all is in my crawl

Proposed with CSV If I understand you

Well --- line to crawl -- CSV --- Tee same as above

Would this work?

Can the CSV be vertical or does it have to be horizontal

Thanks again for all your time

George

Yes, Yes, and vertical is no problem. By George I think you've got it.

CSV1.25 1.25" 50 gpm 60 psi CSV or csv1

was thinking the 1.25 so no adaptors as I have 1 1/4 line

can csv be too large?

should i stick to csv1?

with csv can one use a smaller tank? if my tank goes bad can i get smaller tank?

did u invent the csv??

does one place make them all?

Yes he did invent the CSV and he does make them all.

The CSV1 is the 1 to 25 gallon per minute valve and the CSV1-1/4 is the 25 to 50 gpm valve. Most if not practically all homes would use the CSV1 or the CSV1W or CSV1Z.

bob...