Spa GFI Location

I am new to the forums. I ran 2+ground wire cable to my spa panel location(45 feet) since the spa I was getting has a two+ground requirement. The GFI has a netural and I am told that eventhough I have grounded the spa panel with a grounding rod I cannot ground the nutral at the spa sub panel.
My QUESTION: Can I install the GFI breaker at the source of the spa cable(sub panel in the basement) that has a nutral bar connected and place a regular breaker in the spa panel which is 6' from the spa location? Both spa and panel are on an exterior deck.
Mel C

680.42(C) will allow the equipment grounding conductor to be un- insulated for that portion that is on the interior of a building for a single family dwelling but the conductors you mention are not supplying the motor and are feeding a remote panel instead making 680.42(C) viod.

This tub is being installed outside.

680.42 Outdoor Installations.
A spa or hot tub installed outdoors shall comply with the provisions of Parts I and II of this article,

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These conductors will be feeders and must comply with

680.25 Feeders.
These provisions shall apply to any feeder on the supply side of panelboards supplying branch circuits for pool equipment covered in Part II of this article and on the load side of the service equipment or the source of a separately derived system.
(A) Wiring Methods. Feeders shall be installed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight, flexible nonmetallic conduit, or rigid nonmetallic conduit. Electrical metallic tubing shall be permitted where installed on or within a building, and electrical nonmetallic tubing shall be permitted where installed within a building.

(B) Grounding. An equipment grounding conductor shall be installed with the feeder conductors between the grounding terminal of the pool equipment panelboard and the grounding terminal of the applicable service equipment or source of a separately derived system. For other than (1) existing feeders covered in 680.25(A), Exception, or (2) feeders to separate buildings that do not utilize an insulated equipment grounding conductor in accordance with 680.25(B)(2), this equipment grounding conductor shall be insulated.(1) Size. This conductor shall be sized in accordance with 250.122 but not smaller than 12 AWG.

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As for the ground rods I am at a loss as they are not needed if this tub is

pimel@wildblue.net said:

Both spa and panel are on an exterior deck.
Mel C

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and the deck is attached to the house.

Install the feeders and isolate the grounded (neutral) at the remote panel. Bond the insluated equipment grounding conductor to the enclosure for the remote panel and the equipment grounding conductor of the tub.

With this type of installation the GFCI can be installed at the remote panel. Keep in mind that you are mixing treated water and electricity in the same area that you plan on playing so safety should be in the upper most concern. Making it work is not the answer that you are looking for right now as just because it works does not mean that it is safe.

This tub will also be required to adhere to 680.22(A)(3) also. A receptacle no closer than 10 feet and no farther away than 20 feet will need to be installed. By moving the remote panel away from the tub and installing four conductors the receptacle can be located in the same area and be fed from the same panel.

All the information Mike gave you is correct and necessary.

pimel@wildblue.net said:

My QUESTION: Can I install the GFI breaker at the source of the spa cable(sub panel in the basement) that has a nutral bar connected and place a regular breaker in the spa panel which is 6' from the spa location?

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The quick answer to this question is YES.


I just have to ask, WHO (incorrectly) told you you needed a ground rod at the tub????
That rod is NOT "grounding" anything...at all, and is basically useless in this application.

Clarification

I guess I wasn't too clear and maybe confused the issue with too much information. First of all the GFI breaker has a neutral (white) . The Cable from the house panel to the spa panel only has the two supply and a ground, no white neutral. So I proposed to place the spa (50 Amp) GFI in the house panel so I could attach the GFI nutral to the panel's neutral bar. And place the standard 50amp breaker in the disconnect box in the proximaty of the spa(6' in view). So the question was does it matter which end of the supply lines to the spa panel the GFI is located?

The grounding bar was present for grounding of the satelite system and I believed grounding the spa panel would be an additional safty measure to the insulated ground wire from the disconnect to the supply panel. No one advised it was required for the spa but it is adajacent to the panel and deck and handy.

pimel@wildblue.net said:

I guess I wasn't too clear and maybe confused the issue with too much information. First of all the GFI breaker has a neutral (white) . The Cable from the house panel to the spa panel only has the two supply and a ground, no white neutral. So I proposed to place the spa (50 Amp) GFI in the house panel so I could attach the GFI nutral to the panel's neutral bar. And place the standard 50amp breaker in the disconnect box in the proximaty of the spa(6' in view). So the question was does it matter which end of the supply lines to the spa panel the GFI is located?

The grounding bar was present for grounding of the satelite system and I believed grounding the spa panel would be an additional safty measure to the insulated ground wire from the disconnect to the supply panel. No one advised it was required for the spa but it is adajacent to the panel and deck and handy.

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See answer by clicking here