Zip ties or 2" well tape

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Fishyone

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as the heading suggests, which one would you use. Plan is to secure the electrical wire top and below the couplings on 20' PVC pipe. maybe once in the middle. will secure the rope to each section also
Another question some on this forum say to not use a torque arrestor, why is that? have 4" pump in 5"casing
 

Valveman

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Electric tape is better than zip ties. Once above the couplings is enough. Don't use any rope as it will fall and wedge between the 4" pump and 5" casing, planting an old pump in your well. Just make sure to use sch 80 or 120 threaded pipe, no glue. Double jacketed wire is best, as single jacket wire will wear at the taped places and where it is loose enough to slap against the casing on pump start. Torque arrestors are just something else that will help get your pump stuck in the well, and are a bad band aid for problems caused by the pump cycling on and off too much. You won't need torque arrestors, have the wire chaff, or burn up the pump prematurely if you use a Cycle Stop Valve to limit the cycling.
 

Reach4

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While the pump is pulled, add a flow inducer (inducer sleeve) around the motor if you can.

Do you have a pitless adapter?
 

Fishyone

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valveman using sch. 120 with stainless couplings, also using #10 flat jacketed 4 strain wire. torque arrestor guess i can do without. The rope, i don't know, I'm pretty spooked about loosing the pump in the well. not because of the cost of the pump but because of getting it stuck, thereby loosing the future use of the lower part of the well (approx. 200 ft.)

reach 4 i don't have a pitless adapter and don't know of any in my part of the country. We have discussed a flow inducer on another tread and i am looking for some sdr35 sewer pipe but can"t find it yet. I am thinking of using one, even though it would be a tight fit, I am curious that franklin does not call for an inducer on pumps smaller then 3hp. my new pump is a goulds 18GS20412CL 2hp.
I'm the guy who has perforations at 195 to 205 ft. and again at 430 ft. to 460 ft. in a 460ft well. And my plan was to set the pump at 240 ft. I still feel like some water would move up from the bottom due to gravity and pressure trying to get to the static of 100 ft. thereby cooling the motor. (wish i could prove that) I still am not convinced of valveman"s theory that water seeks the path of least resistance which is down., The water i am talking about is already on the bottom.
A couple of other new wells in the area had pump set at 180 ft. in 240ft. well. unless i can get some better information, i may just do the same.
 

Fishyone

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Valveman Also i,m feeling like #10 flat jacketed wire would be pretty strong. and if i solder the metal sleeves inside the shrink wrap sleeves , maybe it would hold to pull the pump if needed thereby doing without the rope what say you
 

LLigetfa

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Another question some on this forum say to not use a torque arrestor, why is that? have 4" pump in 5"casing
I used a torque arrestor on my pump which is hung on poly in a 6 inch steel casing. Poly has a coil memory so the pump does not hang straight resulting in the pump motor touching and rubbing on the metal casing. A flow inducer would have been a better "fix" for that.

When I pulled the pump, the torque arrestor had disintegrated and came up in shreds that could have jammed the pump in the casing had it not been 6 inches with lots of room to spare.
 

Valveman

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Some aquifers are pressurized. You may have to drill to 800' to hit water, but then it will come up to 10' to 50' from the surface. The pressure in the aquafer will make water come up to the pump. However, most aquafers are not pressurized. Water that comes out of the perforations has only gravity to work with. Keeping the water level pulled down is what lets more water flow into the well through the perforations. Unless is it a pressurized aquafer, the pump/motor needs to be set above the perforations, or a flow inducer (shroud) should be installed on the pump.

Sch 120 pipe and metal couplings are plenty strong. No rope or cable is needed. It is actually easier to fish for pipe that has fallen down the well if there is no rope, cable, or wire in the way. I have pulled many pumps by the wire. Good crimp on butt splice connectors will hold a lot of weight without solder.

Franklin claims the newer (shorter) 2HP and smaller "superstainless" motors do not need a shroud. The idea is the motors have been shortened up so much they will get plenty of cooling without a shroud. But shortening up the motor gives less meat for a heatsink and flow past the motor is even more important. Plus, Franklin likes to sell more motors, so shortening them up and not using a shroud creates a demand for replacement motors. All they want is for motors to last just past the warranty period. Lol!
 

Fishyone

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valveman and others
So far you make a strong case for a shroud, i really want the pump at 240' so i am more assured of having all the water i need in the future without having to lower the pump. I am looking for that sdr 35 to make the shroud as we speak. you would think i could find it being in the construction trades and all. Lowes and home depot, no gots. On the rope, i am going to send back what i got and do without. ON the torque arrestor LLigetfa makes a compelling argument against.
Don't make me come to texas looking for you, you already have enough Californians. (your welcome) LOL
 

Valveman

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Even with wells that feed a pump from below, the high static level will be pulled down before water from the perforations starts coming up. Sometimes a motor can get hot before the static level is pulled down. With a shroud the water is always flowing past the motor, even when pulling the static level down.

Cooling flow past the motor is not figured in gallons per minute, but rather in feet per second. The tighter the shroud the higher the FPS and the better the motor cooling.

The white drain pipe is thinner wall and easier to split and hose clamp to the pump.
shroud 3 pics sized.jpg
 

Valveman

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The dinky motor leads or where they attach to the motor will pull loose long before a good butt splice connector. I have seen it many times. Hate to be old and be telling old war stories, and to be old enough to think anybody cares. Lol! But....

Many years ago I worked on deep salt water wells. Up to 75HP submersible pumps were set at about 800' on 4.5" fiberglass pipe. We used round jacketed 2-3 wire and clamped to the 30' pipes above each coupling with a special saddle and a SS clamp using an air operated little machine. I could make a splice in a New York minute, even in blowing snow, using heavy butt splice connectors and 130C rubber tape.

The fiberglass threads would wear, come loose, and I would be fishing for a 75HP pump with maybe 400' of pipe screwed to it. Nearly every time the pump would be hanging by the wire at the well head. Recognizing this before taking anything loose was important. I pulled many of these by the wires. We also learned quickly to have an elevator or plate under the coupling before cutting one of those SS bands. Cutting the band when it came up first could result in watching the pipe coupling fall through the well head and the heavy #2 wire would start whipping from the big circle we made on the ground and dragging anything in the vicinity down the well with it. Best to back away quickly and just let it happen.

However, being somewhat buoyant and falling through 400' of water it wasn't dropping at terminal velocity, but still pretty fast. Stupidly, once I grabbed the wire with my gloved hands, bent it over the well head, and with gloves smoking stopped the pump from falling. Once the weight was being held by the wire, we would tie knots in it and connect a hook from one of two cables hanging from the hoist. We would pull the wire up 40' (height of mast), tie another knot, connect another hook and cable, and pull another 40'. As soon as a pipe coupling came above the well head we would throw a plate or elevator under it. After cleaning up the mess we would resume pulling the pump by the pipe. We were also usually working in a 40 MPH dirt storm or cold north plains wind and a chill factor of zero. Life was never boring in those days. Lol!
 
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