Why would NIBCO/CPI Durapex PEX split (lengthwise) and leak?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by celiason, May 27, 2008.

  1. Penny Porter

    Penny Porter New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    Mark, I am very sorry to hear that you are also having problems. Was the pipe labeled NIBCO? We had our hot water pipes replaced (all of them!). Our plumber donated their labor which was awesome and the plumbing supply donated the pipe which was also wonderful. This was after we spent about $5000 with an attorney trying to get the manufacturer (NIBCO) to take responsibility - they denied any. We had out sheetrock repaired and everything repainted (this was at out expense), and I am happy to say that it looks like nothing ever happened. I think that a group should be formed to document all of the leaks and damages and maybe as a group we can go after them. I think they are in for a great deal of problems going forward.
     
  2. Mark T

    Mark T New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    fixing my pex problem

    i followed the required repairs supplied by the plumbing company price brothers Inc. (the plumbing company) who did the original work and repair as follows they set water pressure at 60 lbs, temp at factory 120 to 125, install expansion tank AND 20 feet of new pex starting 18 inchs from the hot water tank which is a copper line. drywall started being replaced today at my expense iam just still in shock that they never informed anyone whos house had faulty CPI DURA-PEX installed of the problems. according to the papers i recived from price brothers inc. Nibco inc. purchased on may 15 2006 substantislly all the assets of The Warren Group Inc. who did business as Consolidated Plumbing Industries and Nibco did not assume ther LIABILITIES in the transaction and i have been told that since nibco did not manufacture any of cpi pex pipe prior to may 15 2006 and did not assume any of there liability related thereto Nibco is not responsible for pipe produced before May 15 2006 and cpi inc is no longer in business and there policies per price brother inc. says were written on claim made policies and as it now appears to me the home owner this in short means iam out after may 15 2006 acording to the plumbing company. just a note i was informed there problems started in dec 2005 and are in two counties Union County NC and York County SC i have hade as they required to fix the problem had them do as i stated above and i can say paying the company who installed the pipe to repair the problem is in words not speakable.....besides having to pay for the drywall repair Mark T
     
  3. Heather M

    Heather M New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    my house is a durapex disaster

    I live just outside Charlotte, my builder was Saussy Burbank and the plumbing installer was Price Brothers.
    My house was built in 2003 using all dura pex, and last week the pipe leading from my hot water tank burst. It rained in my dining room, a plumber came and said it was faulty plumbing. My pressure is only at 65, we have a pressure reduction valve...it had to be the dura pex in his opinion (he said he repairs the pipes every day!) 4 days later a new section of pipe split and burst once again making it rain in my dining room. My insurance mitigation team came back today, and thinks we have another leak in my master bath pipe as well.
    I called Nimco who said it's not their responsibility (regardless that the website says 25 yr warranty) because they've only been producing the dura pex for 2 yrs, that it's CPIs mistake and "sorry". I screamed at the guy by the end of the call, I'm so frustrated.
    Now what? I pay for all of my plumbing repairs out of pocket, ins is just damage control for ruined floors, furniture, etc--my husband got a concussion and ended up in the ER during clean up. I feel so defeated. I just don't know what to do.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
  4. Penny Porter

    Penny Porter New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    I am so sorry that you are going through this. I totally understand. It was a nightmare for us, even though my husband didn't get a concussion! Our insurance company is not renewing our policy due to the claims even though we have replaced the pipe. We are having to pay more for insurance going forward due to this situation. I think that it is time for a group to form. There may be strength in numbers. Anyone have any ideas?
     
  5. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Occupation:
    Sensitivity trainer.. plumber of mens souls
    Location:
    indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
    get a lawyer and sue everybody

    your only recourse is to sue everyone...

    sue the original plumber ,,
    attempt to find out who their insurance comapny was at that time if possible,

    sue the builder and their insurance company, .

    (this is why they have insurance in the first place)


    also sue nibco..


    possibly find a lawyer looking ot get a class action lawsuit started on this stuff....




    you might as well get a plumber into your home and
    get it all changed out ......that would be wise. and it would be cheaper
    just to bite the bullet and get it done for perhaps about 5-10k


    ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2009
  6. Penny Porter

    Penny Porter New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2009
    We have already bit the bullit and replaced all the pipes and repaired everything that was damaged, but are having issues getting insurance at a reasonable rate. Our plumber donated his labor when we replaced all of the pipes, so we would not sue him. We are the builder, so we would not sue ourselves. Our attorney estimated $35-30,000.00 in attorneys fees with no way to recoup that if we lost the case. I guess that the only thing to do would be to gather a group together with the same problem and go after them.
     
  7. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Occupation:
    Sensitivity trainer.. plumber of mens souls
    Location:
    indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
    sorry about the problems


    hopefully you replaced it with copper ,, or wirsbo pex..

    this will turn into a class action lawsuit that really only makes money for the lawyers anyway......

    you can be the one that starts the lawsuit but it would probably be 10 years before anything gets resolved....


    thier is also the possibility of sueing the supply house
    but its probably all a waste of time..


    good luck ...
     
  8. MikaelJ

    MikaelJ New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    We live in Fort Mill, SC. We have had this same problem 4 times in the last year. We just spoke to neighbors and have found that there are at least 3 other neighbors that have had the exact same problems with this PEX piping. I would like to discuss this further with you over the phone. Please email me at mikaeljenny@live.com
     
  9. Dunbar Plumbing

    Dunbar Plumbing Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Occupation:
    Service Plumber, Outdoor Temperature Relief Owner
    Location:
    Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati Area


    Need pictures of said PEX piping.

    Can you do this?
     
  10. MikaelJ

    MikaelJ New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    picture of PEX Pipe split on last leak

    Here is one picture from the last leak that happened last week. I dont have pictures from the previous leaks.
    Also, I have found more people in another neighborhood in the same town as mine that have had the same problems. The houses were built around the same year (7-8 years ago) using the same plumbing company but different builders.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. celiason

    celiason New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Occupation:
    Mommy
    Location:
    NC
    Update from Original poster celiason

    Wow...this thread has really grown... Just wanted to share an update with you...

    We had another break in our NIBCO/CPI Durapex - hot water side, further down the line. Luckily I was home and able to shut off water quickly avoiding extensive damage...

    Again, the split appears to have started inside the NIBCO/CPI Durapex, running lengthwise along the pipe (see my previous photos) and it is on the hot water side... water pressure has not changed and our PRV and expansion tank are functioning.

    I asked our plumber to replace as much NIBCO/CPI Durapex as was accessible while he had the sheetrock opened (eight feet from attic to just above first floor level). The remainder of the pipe continues on through first floor to our full finished basement, which I will now check quite often... blessedly, I have been home to prevent a disaster each time we have had a NIBCO/CPI Durapex failure. I have saved every piece of NIBCO/CPI Durapex and by now I estimate we have replaced the 18-20 feet NIBCO/CPI Durapex recommended...

    I share in everyone's frustration in dealing with this problem. Unfortunately, I feel that the company does not feel obligated to address these issues.

    I can only share my experiences with this product and company when I am asked and feel that based on what I am reading here, I am not alone...My plumbers have not had very positive opinions of the NIBCO/CPI Durapex product...I am sure these professional plumbers have an extensive network in this area and are aware of these issues with NIBCO/CPI Durapex...

    Best wishes and best of luck to all. (I wish I could say that a Class Action suit would help, but I don't feel I could recoup anything and it would take too long to see satisfaction...)

    Celiason
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2009
  12. RogerM

    RogerM New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2009
    Location:
    Seminole
    CPI Dura Pex

    I recently built a new home in Southwest Alabama (less than 3 years olds)I've had 4 leaks within the 30-45 days! They've all been on the hot water
    pipes. This has created quite a problem. :( I've had to basically destoy
    my brand new custom built (3-story) home!

    I contacted Nibco. Nibco disavowed any & all resposibility. The representative advised me that I would have to contact the CHUBB Insurance Company at #800-252-4670, he even gave me a claim number.

    However, he did advise me that he believed that the policy had lapsed.
    I'm still waiting on an agent to contact me... I lived in a house for 14 years that had Poly-Butylene Pipe, and never had any problems. I haven't even made it 3 years with this stuff!!

    Does anyone else see another "Class Action Law Suite" coming?
    Help, Help!!
    Thanks!
    Roger1

    LandstarPFL (Yahoo Instant Messenger)
     
  13. tanya-n-todd

    tanya-n-todd New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    I just saw this thread. We haven't had problems yet, but had a lot of galvanized pipes replaced with CPI DuraPEX in 2007 (both 1/2 inch and 3/4 inch). And now I'm worried. :confused:

    We plan in the next couple of months to work with a plumber and replace more galvanized pipes with PEX (different house). Someone upthread mentioned wirsbo pex - is that the best?
     
  14. AAnderson

    AAnderson In the Trades

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Location:
    Aptos, CA
    When the first PEX tech/ installer class took place in my area about 12 years ago, I learned a lot about PEX. I had installed PB tubing in the 70's and never had a problem, unlike others. I've stayed true to using WIRSBO PEX-A and have stayed within the installation guidelines with miles installed and never once a leak.
    Not all PEX is alike! Use only A type, not B or C PEX. Crimping tools like those used on Zurn pex are a disaster waiting to happen. Transporting pex in the back of a truck and allowing it to become ruined to exposure to UV is the biggest problem I see with all PEX. Make sure your plumber uses fresh, factory new when he starts a job.
     
  15. Couch-Tuber

    Couch-Tuber New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Location:
    Texas
    UV exposure

    Just have to jump in here on my soap box....Having been involved in technology and support for years, I have become aware of how so much "new fangled" technology is just a house of cards waiting to fall. They never test every eventuality in the lab and it is the consumer who ends up being the lab rat in the field.

    On the one hand the PEX people point to how long PEX has been deployed in Europe. And growing usage here in the US. So where are the horror stories if it is so easy to end up with failures? THis appears to be isolated to a bad batch as so many posts are from NC. But if UV exposure leads to failure of PEX, seems the stuff should be banned as there is no way to guarantee along the supply chain that it will be 100% protected. Surely it can't be that fragile and should tolerate some amount of sunlight prior to being weathered in. But failure gives rise to new opportunities and technology -

    I saw on "this old House hour" they were installing a new type of pex with aluminum liner. Never saw this before. Is this pex-al-pex or something? Sounds like a way to overcome fragility problems inherrent in the PEX system. Or perhaps that too needs a generation to prove itself.
     
  16. Darwin

    Darwin New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2010
    Location:
    Alabama
    The hot water side has also split on Durapex in my home about four feet away from the water heater flooding attic, bedroom, two closets, and garage. I think I see a trend here!
     
  17. collegestationplumber

    collegestationplumber In the Trades

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Location:
    College Station TX
    Dura PEX is faulty

    Well folks I ended up here looking for answers. We own a major plumbing company in Texas. We have been in business for 40 plus years. From football stadiums to fixing faucet drips. We do it all. Just for the record we used Dura PEX tubing for a period of time and 3 - 4 years later it is coming back to haunt us. Splits along the tubing just like the ones in the pictures in previous post. It has been a total nightmare. From leaks in the slabs to ceiling leaks and major damage all over the place. It is all the same Dura PEX made by Nibco before 2006. The tubing was flawed from the very beginning. It is unfortunate for the hard working plumbers out there besides us and the homeowners etc.. that have to go through this. We plumbed numerous very large apartment complexes with Dura PEX. We have spent 40 years as a credible and reliable company and suddenly something like this raises questions to our customers. And who can blame them ?

    I found some good info here and hopefully it will help in our decision in which road we will take to resolve this problem. We purchased it from Moore supply, the major national plumbing supply, and they are helping greatly with the cost etc.... Afterall they sold it to us.

    I hope this helps. I realize most of the post are dated back a bit. The more info the better.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2015
  18. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
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    New England
    Anyone know what manufacturing method was used to make that stuff (-a, -b, or -c)? If it was pex-c, if strict quality control methods aren't used, it can be brittle or incompletely cross-linked, and thus weak. To a degree, that can happen with the other methods, too, but pex-a, and pex-b are more expensive to make and the conversion process to link the molecular chains tends to be more complete (with pex-a usually the winner, but the most expensive). Get the temperature control or process duration off just a little with -c, and it quickly affects the reliability of the product.
     
  19. Drivesme

    Drivesme New Member

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    Mar 9, 2005
    Location:
    Washington state
    At this point why would anyone allow this stuff into their house?
    I'm going to re-pipe my supply lines and I'm going with the tried and true copper.
    100 years of use compared to 20? No brainer.
    Yes the up front cost is a bit more, but considering the damage and problems 3 years down the road, seems cheap.
     
  20. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    Consumer
    Location:
    Hansville, Washington
    One reason would be if tried and true copper failed. We see a fair amount of that in older under-slab copper.
     

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