Well water pressure drops to 0 during water softener regeneration

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Toni03103, Mar 24, 2021.

  1. Toni03103

    Toni03103 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2021
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Hi All,

    I am new to the forum and I stumbled on the site while doing some research regarding my issue.

    I have a well for water supply and recently I have been experiencing an issue. I have a water softener and during its regeneration process I lose all pressure, the guage for the water pressure tank starts dropping from 60psi to 0 within a minute or a minute and a half. Once the water softener completes the regeneration the pressure slowly climbs back up to 60psi.

    I have a Grundfos CU301 system for the well pump control and it all seems to be operating normal, per owners manual.

    The pressure in the pressure tank is correct as well 38psi, thanks to you guys I was able to figure out and tested it, so I don't think it is the tank. Cut in/out 40/60 psi (not sure why the cut in pressure would not kick in once the guage drops below 40?)

    I did a manual regeneration on the water softener and I lose all water through the house. I have to wait for at least 2 hours after regeneration to start using my water again, because if I use it right after the completion of regeneration, even one faucet running, causes the psi to drop to 0.

    I thank you all in advance for any assistance. I'd hire a professional but currently I'm unemployed and want to save some money by fixing it myself.

    Thanks again!!
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    I understand your confusion if you say that this never happens went filling a tub etc.

    Not that this should matter, but how did you come up with 38 psi? Those CU301 systems are unusual I think. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/fixing-a-grundfos-cu301.57546/ I am not saying that this is related to to your problem.

    If a pressure gauge goes to zero, we all agree the pump should turn on. And if it doesn't you could consider a clogged nipple to the pressure sensor as thing you could address yourself. Beyond that, some other piece is failing. But the connection to the water softener has no explanation that I can imagine.
     
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  4. Toni03103

    Toni03103 New Member

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    Mar 24, 2021
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Hi Reach4,
    My system is 40/60 psi so I was under the impression that the tank should read 38psi when tested? (With pump off and water drained)
     
  5. Toni03103

    Toni03103 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2021
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Hi Reach4,
    My system is 40/60 psi so I was under the impression that the tank should read 38psi when tested? (With pump off and water drained)
     
  6. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Check that link I included, or better yet, look at your CU301 manual.

    You are not using a regular 40/60 pressure switch, are you ? Usually CU301 keeps the pressure narrower.

    Altho if your CU301 fails, you can in fact use a 40x60 pressure switch instead of the CU301. Your SQE pump should work like an SQ pump in that case.
     
  7. Toni03103

    Toni03103 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2021
    Location:
    New Hampshire
     
  8. Toni03103

    Toni03103 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2021
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Thank you sir!

    I definitely plan on swapping the cu301 with 40/60 pressure switch once this thing dies.

    Oh ok I wasn't aware that cu301 keeps the pressure narrower. I'll check the owners manual.

    Thank you again very much!
     
  9. Toni03103

    Toni03103 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2021
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    I finally swapped the CU301 with a 40/60 PSI switch and installed a CSV1A (Cycle Stop Valve) but I am still having water pressure issues. I flush a toilet while running a faucet and my pressure drops to 0.

    I replaced the pressure tank (set it to 38PSI)

    I am not sure if the CSV could be defective or what but I'm stuck no idea what to do next. Or maybe I didnt set the CSV correctly.

    Or could it be the well pump?

    Here is a diagram of installation
     
  10. Toni03103

    Toni03103 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2021
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    20210420_095223.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    The pressure gauge reads zero, or do you mean that water does not flow? Does the new pressure gauge have a lever?

    I don't know what the symptom would be if you installed the CSV backwards, but I have an idea. It's worth checking.

    Usually you have a drain valve at the pressure tank also. Do you not have one?
     
  12. Toni03103

    Toni03103 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2021
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    Yes the water pressure guage reads 0 and the water stops.

    I do have a drain valve at the pressure tank
     
  13. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    IL
    So at that point, the pressure switch should be sending power to the pump. Can you confirm that with a voltmeter? Commonly pressure switches are wired with the outer two terminals going to the pump. What voltage is going to your pump at that point? (measured between terminals 2 and 3 if your pressure switch is wired like this:
    [​IMG]

    Is there a lever on the side of your pressure switch?
    Is your CSV in backwards?
     
  14. Toni03103

    Toni03103 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2021
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    There is a lever on the side of the pressure switch. When the pressure drops to 0 I use that to restart the pump to get the pressure back up.

    The CSV is installed with the arrow pointing away from the pump.

    The pressure switch seems to be working ok as when I run a faucet only the pressure switch clicks when the pressure reaches 40psi and clicks off at 60psi
     
  15. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    IL
    You will need to reduce the precharge on your pressure tank. Start with 35 psi air precharge.
     
  16. Toni03103

    Toni03103 New Member

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    Mar 24, 2021
    Location:
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    Thank you sir, I will give that a shot when I get home. Should I keep reducing it lower than 35psi if the problem is not resolved?
     
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    IL
    Yes.
    It is possible that 36 or 37 might even work.

    Note that when the water pressure is above 40, and no water is being used, the air pressure and water pressure are practically the same. This can be used to compare calibration between your air pressure gauge and water pressure gauge. Another thing to consider is to take a movie of the pressure gauge when the switch clicks on. Maybe your switch is actually ticking on at 39 psi.

    The pressure switch and input to the pressure tank should be close. If there is much difference, swapping the position of your pressure switch and pressure gauge could be worthwhile.
     
  18. Toni03103

    Toni03103 New Member

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    Mar 24, 2021
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    New Hampshire
    Thank you so much. The pressure switch is about 3 1/2 inches away from the tank.
     
  19. viper1

    viper1 New Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
    Location:
    S KS
    OP, you mentioned a 'lever' on the side of the pressure switch. that means you have a a low pressure cut out which is intended to protect against a pump pulling the well dry. They have to be tuned right but in most cases I have found them to be a serious problem. I actually tried one on my own system last yr and pulled it within a few days and threw the damn thing in the field. The low pressure cutout is not adjustable so if your water demand is high enough (like running multiple fixtures), the pressure would drop past the set point and it would lock you out.

    I suspect this is your problem and I would replace that switch with one without the low pressure cutout. That should get you fixed up. You can confirm my diagnosis by slowly increasing flowrate while watching the pressure. At the set point of 30psi, you will hear the switch lockout and pressure will drop like a rock.

    Not sure how far your well is to the pressure switch but I see many with pipe being too small, which causes excessive pressure drop.

    It should also be noted that if you are changing air charge in a pressure tank, that should only be done when the tank has no water in it. Do not attempt that with pressure on the water side.
     
  20. Toni03103

    Toni03103 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2021
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Thank you Viper! I will pick up a new pressure switch (without the lever) now on my way home and replace it.

    I am somewhat confused on setting the CSV1A. The part that is confusing is when it states to "adjust demand to 2-3 gpm how is this done?

    I believe I noticed this yesterday when I was trying to figure it out the issue. "At the set point of 30psi, you will hear the switch lockout and pressure will drop like a rock."

    Thank you and Reach4 for all your assistance. I will follow up and let you know if the issue gets resolved.
     
  21. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Turn on a hose or tub faucet to the rate that fills a 5-gallon bucket in about 2 minutes.
     
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