Water Treatment Options - High pH & Alkalinity

[drunkstreetbum]

Hi all,

We recently purchased a home that has been vacant for ~8 years, and the well has only been used a few times for water testing.The well is approximately 220 feet deep, with a 30' casing. Bedrock is approximately 8 feet (shale), where the static water level sits. At the time of drilling (~12 years ago) the well produced greater than 5gpm for 4 hours. Once we purchased, I elected to "turn over" the well a few times, following by a shock chlorination (sit for 16 hours), with another 1-2 turnovers after. With a garden house open full strength (I did not measure GPM, but it appears high), it took more than 5 hours to see a reduction in water flow rate, and when the "nasty" water came up. The well water has varied from dark grey w/ settable solids/silts that have accumulated in toilets, to the current condition where it is mostly clear, with some turbidity and a very faint gray tinge. There is a hydrogen sulfide smell present, which has also varied in strength. The toilet tanks all had lots of black/stringy growth in them; the problem is the house has been vacant so long, this may be attributed to several items. Water feels "slippery", more on that below.

I waited until I cleaned the water up through well flushing to send the water samples in for testing. While I'm still waiting for official results, I got some preliminary information back and followed it up with a "box store" test kit and a cheapo TDS meter this weekend.

Official Testing
Coliform: Negative
Turbidity: 24 (at time of testing)
pH: 8.9
Alkalinity (CaCO3): 362 mg/L
Hardness as CAC3): <2 mg/L
Nitrate: <0.01 mg/L
Iron: 0.68 mg/L
Manganese: <0.01 mg/L
Sodium: 173 mg/L
Lead: <0.001 mg/L
Sulfide: <0.10 mg/L
Nitrite: <0.01 mg/L

Home Test Kit:
TDS: ~350(multiple test samples)
pH: between 9 & 10 (will get a more accurate test kit now that I know it's high)
(Just bought my own pH meter, Apera PH60 - will be checking regularly)
Iron: Very low, per test strip
Hardness: Very low, per test strip
Alkalinity: Off charts, per test strip
Chlorine: 0/Very low

Based on the high pH, it makes sense the water is slippery as I have found basic solutions to feel this way. It appears this is more of a unique case to high high alkalinity/pH and naturally low hardness. There is no residual Chlorine that I can tell that contribute to the pH. Neighbors seem to have lots of different type of treatment systems; I have not talked to them much, but I don't believe any of them are using Acid Injection. (One of them mentioned using a softener, which either means very different water or they got ripped off). Either way, none of them are super happy with their treatment from what I gather.

I will be utilizing RO for drinking water, and I already purchased a 100 micron spindown filter, and a 3x Big Blue (20") filter setup that I planned to use as a "redundant" filter. I am still waiting for official results for Iron, Manganese, Turbidity, Sodium, Sulfide & pH, but I believe it's time to start looking into the primary treatment. I had initially expected hard water & iron removal so most of my research is centered around that. Since it seems both of these are very low, it does not make sense to invest in Katalox Light unless Manganese comes in high. What's the next best system for removing Hydrogen Sulfide, if no Manganese is present?

Since the pH is high, I believe I may need to utilize acid injection to bring it down to ~9 or less. I've read a bit about acids, but it's been awhile since my chemistry days. Would adding sulphuric acids help reduce hydrogen sulfide? I need to avoid any chloric acids, as the Cl ions have the potential to cause dezincification (more on that below...). I am leaning towards utilizing a carboxylic acid, as these seem to introduce the least amount of elemental byproducts. Any advice in this regard?

To add to all of the above, the house wastewater is treated through an on-site Eljen septic system. The system, is 12 years old, but has not been used for the last 8 of those years. The system is ALMOST undersized, but I plan to replace the primary tank and expand the field in a few years. Lastly, and this in important, the whole house is plumbed with Kitec piping and fittings. I've already purchased a bunch of aluminum replacement fittings from Veratek to plumb in the new bladder tank, hot water heater, etc. I don't plan to replumb the whole house at this juncture (no money!) so I need to do what I can to reduce the possibility of dezincification. Chlorine is about the worst thing for these fittings, as is low pH and highly oxidized water. I purchased a polyphosphate scale inhibitor (3M) to place downstream of the water treatment systems...not sure if this is necessary and am still researching, but some tests suggests it helps prevent zinc leaching (at least for a short time).

I will update this once I know more about the test results! Please let me know if anyone has advice...I am planning to install everything myself, as I consider myself handy and am a Civil Engineer at least somewhat familiar with water treatment. Information/guides on residential acid injection appear extremely limited or non-existent!

Update:
I just updated the official test results; had to wait 2 weeks for them to come back. pH is not as high as I thought (good!), but the tester suggests the turbidity is based on colloidal clay. This would make sense given the "slippery" feel of the water, the inconsistent gray character and the sodium levels contributing to the natural softness.

 

[Reach4]

Once we purchased, I elected to "turn over" the well a few times, following by a shock chlorination (sit for 16 hours), with another 1-2 turnovers after.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my sanitizing writeup. Note the comments on pH.

You could consider cleaning the well of solids. The quick way is to blow high volume of air to the bottom using a towed compressor. The slow way is to use an air lift pump, which can use an electric compressor. Since you have a high static level, the air lift pump should work nicely. You will find Youtube videos that show both ways.

Regarding H2S, is that mainly on the hot?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[drunkstreetbum]

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my sanitizing writeup. Note the comments on pH.

You could consider cleaning the well of solids. The quick way is to blow high volume of air to the bottom using a towed compressor. The slow way is to use an air lift pump, which can use an electric compressor. Since you have a high static level, the air lift pump should work nicely. You will find Youtube videos that show both ways.

Regarding H2S, is that mainly on the hot?

No hot water yet; I have not connected anything until I get the treatment settled (or until we move in) whichever is first! I have looked into using a sludge pump, but for 220 feet it seemed a costly and difficult setup to build! Since the sediment cleaned up for now, would it be OK to wait until warmer weather?

I do not believe the well has a casing filter...since it's 220 feet and in bedrock, sediment/water will be coming in through the full length. It's not listed on the drilling report, and the driller is deceased so no easy way to check without a camera!

I have previously read the sanitizing recommendation, and although I did not use this method previously, I had planned to in the future. Is it worth repeating the sanitizing now to reduce something? I have (6) 5-gallon water containers so I will see what I can use to help with flushing volume. Do you anticipate there is something else in the water that this flushing will rectify to help lower the pH?

 

[Reach4]

I have previously read the sanitizing recommendation, and although I did not use this method previously, I had planned to in the future. Is it worth repeating the sanitizing now to reduce something?

I don't know. If you could kill off your SRB (sulfate reducing bacteria), that might help the H2S problem. It may be those are too far into the strata... But if you are getting more well work done, I would think that waiting until after that would make sense. Also, winter is a tough time to do that.

I used a plastic garbage container with two drum liners to keep the water clean, the first time. I used a water bed mattress the second.

https://www.watersystemscouncil.org...on_sheets/9709284pH_Update_September_2007.pdf says

Drinking water with a pH level above 8.5 indicates that a high level of alkalinity minerals are present. High alkalinity does not pose a health risk, but can cause aesthetic problems, such as an alkali taste to the water that makes coffee taste bitter; scale build-up in plumbing; and lowered efficiency of electric water heaters.​

The scale build up thing would be associated with hardness.

How big is your casing? 4 inch ID, 5 inch?

Do you think your well is bottom feeding, or fed from higher up? Without a fully cased well, I guess you would not know. My write-up is aimed at bottom feeding wells. If the casing is big enough, you can drop chlorine and acid pellets to treat the bottom.

I've already purchased a bunch of aluminum replacement fittings from Veratek to plumb in the new bladder tank, hot water heater, etc.

I had not heard of those. Plastic ("EP" = engineered plastic) are non-reactive. Aluminum for a water system doesn't seem desirable to me.

 

[drunkstreetbum]

6" Casing, 6" well bore. Definitely fed along the stratum; well test indicates different gpm at difference depths. Most wells in this part of NY are rock bores, and do not feed from the bottom, but along their entire length. Since it's shale, there are many many layers!

The higher pH is of concern for several reasons, not related to drinking, being scale buildup and the effects on skin. My daughter and I suffer from dry skin, so I want to try to help this as much as I can. All drinking water will be treated with a Reverse Osmosis system.

Lastly, the aluminum fittings aren't really by choice, except for hte fact that I don't want to replumb everything. The house is plumbed with Pex-Al-Pex manufactured by Kitec. The fittings provided by Kitec were likely manufactured with too high of a zinc content and are susceptible to dezincification. Since Kitec piping has a different ID/OD, I can't just mate to normal pex/sharkbite/copper fittings. Lastly, contact with the interior aluminum layer can cause galvanic corrosion with dissimilar metals. Fun stuff you learn when you're an engineer!

 

[WorthFlorida]

Is it a submersible and a new pump or has it been sitting in the ground for 12 years?

 

[drunkstreetbum]

Is it a submersible and a new pump or has it been sitting in the ground for 12 years?

Sitting for 8 years; it's a 12yr old pump and was used during the first homeowners stay the first 4 years. It's been turned on at least a few times the last 8 years, but infrequently at best and likely only for water tests done during inspections.

 

[Reach4]

The higher pH is of concern for several reasons, not related to drinking, being scale buildup and the effects on skin.

What scale can build up that would not contribute to hardness? Silica?

 

[WorthFlorida]

It’s not clear if the pump is 220’ down or around 30’. With eight years of no use I’m wondering what has grown inside the poly pipe from the pump to the pressure tank. Your water lab test should reveal any problems.

 

[drunkstreetbum]

I would be concerned with Calcium scale, from the carbonate.

You're correct in that I don't know the depth of the well pump itself; Due to the high recovery and production, the depth of the well, and the surrounding properties, I assume the pump is set a few feet off the bottom. ~ 200'

 

[Reach4]

Hardness as CAC3): <2

I would be concerned with Calcium scale, from the carbonate.

If you had much calcium, the hardness would be more. In quoting hardness, it can be done in grains or mg/l. But even if your number is in grains, 2 grains is low. I am not a pro, and maybe that is enough to give deposit problems at your pH, but I would not think so.

I think a more extensive water test is needed.

The NLT/watercheck lab tests are very well respected. Your water is rather unusual, so a premium test is probably called for. https://watercheck.com/collections/well-water-tests I don't know what the return shipping would come to. I would guess over $40. If you go with that, could you post what shipping came to?

Here are a couple other lab tests I would consider to be worthwhile:
http://envirotestkits.com/product/safe-home-select-drinking-water-test-kit/ $99 (on sale often for less) has the main things you need for softener etc. Note that this offering has home bacteria test. For any bacteria test to be meaningful, you have to follow proper sampling techniques including sterilizing the faucet. If you care about the coliform test results, care needs to be taken in sampling. http://www.ugra.org/images/pdf/sampling_handout.pdf is one description of a method to avoid contaminating the sample. I suspect most coliform positives on deep wells that have been sanitized since well work are contaminated samples.

http://www.e-watertest.com/ This was where I got my first water test. Now that KarLabs has closed, they are looking good to me again. But wait. That now directs to a different site. Did they rebrand as https://mytapscore.com/, or is a different lab doing the testing now. My impression is that this is a different lab. I think my test was done on the east coast, and this appears to be Berkeley, California. So things change. I finally found a sample report. Hard to read. Not designed by a technical person IMO. https://simplewaterdata.com/report/example This sample says is for their "Advanced Well Water Test", but the contents seem to be for their essential test. The sample does not mention VOCs

I have determined that the difference in their "Essential Well Water Test" (https://mytapscore.com/collections/well-water-tests/products/essential-well-water-test) and their "Advanced Well Water Test" is the advanced tests for VOCs, which they classify as "Industrial Chemicals" and "Disinfection". They pay postage both ways. I infer they contract out the actual lab work.


https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/recommended-water-testing-lab.75253/

 

[drunkstreetbum]

I just updated the top post with the official test results. It looks like there could be colloidal clay which is causing the turbidity. I left some of the first water samples I took in water bottles for several weeks to see if they would "settle out"...while there has been some settling, the water is overall still very cloudy.

I purchased some hydrogen peroxide (7%) and aluminum sulfate which should be arriving this weekend. I plan to run some experiments to see if I can reduce the turbidity and settle out the iron/sulfide with the two. If successful, I believe I have a few options, and would love some professional opinions/recommendations on where to purchase equipment for this.

Option 1: Hydrogen Peroxide Injection
Install an injection pump and solution tank to feed hydrogen peroxide upstream of the pressure tank, with 1" static mixer. 100 micron prefilter after pressure tank, then backwashing sediment filter (5 micron?) followed by backwashing catalytic carbon. I have a triple big blue (20") filter I would use for ~1 micron particles. All drinking water through an RO system. If there is a good bit of colloids in the water, this will not do much to alleviate it, but might be a good way to start.

Option 2: Hydrogen Peroxide Injection And Alum Injection
Install an injection pump and solution tank to feed hydrogen peroxide upstream of the pressure tank, with 1" static mixer. 100 micron prefilter after pressure tank, then a second injection pump/static mixer for Alum (or other flocculant/coagulant) to ~30 gallon mixing tank. Backwashing sediment filter (5 micron?) followed by backwashing catalytic carbon. I have a triple big blue (20") filter I would use for ~1 micron particles. All drinking water through an RO system.

Option 3: Hydrogen Peroxide Injection and Ultrafiltration
Install an injection pump and solution tank to feed hydrogen peroxide upstream of the pressure tank, with 1" static mixer. 100 micron prefilter after pressure tank, then backwashing sediment filter (5 micron?) followed by an Ultrafiltration Membrane. There are several options here; I can try out a cheaper system in the big blue filter container, and if the filter media clogs too quickly, I can upgrade to a standalone backwashing membrane. These appear to cost more than 2k alone, so it's a pricey option. All drinking water through an RO system.

I have included Hydrogen Peroxide on each option, as I believe this will help immensely with the Iron and Hydrogen Sulfide. Although the sulfide smell isn't shown to be very high on the results, I've found that the amount I notice is in the house varies significantly. I want to eliminate all traces!

I need help sizing the filters, and selecting media. Does it make sense to do a combined media/catalytic carbon filter? I will test flow rates this weekend to determine backwash ability.