Water Softener replacement or repair?

[Bodie01]

Hoping for some advice as to whether we should purchase a new softener or repair the existing one. My husband and I just purchased our home in April and while the water softener was working we experienced iron and sulfur issues. We had an Aquasana 500,000 Gallon Whole Home Well Water Rhino system w/UV and whole home Iron filter installed. The iron staining and sulfur smell were immediately gone after installation (yay!). At this point we had very soft water with no staining and no sulfur smell, the only problem was that the water had a slight salty taste at times. We contacted a local Well/Water Treatment company to have them come out and service the softener. As this is our first experience with well water or a softener neither of us had any clue. To my dismay there are only a few companies in our area and getting someone to come out here AND seem the slightest bit trustworthy has been a real struggle. The current softener (Fleck 5600 timered and 10x35 tank) was installed in 2009. When initially contacting the person that installed it they immediately tried to convince me we needed to not only dig a new deep water well, (well just drilled in 2009 by the same person) but also get a whole home RO system. This person seems like a total crook and I would like to steer completely clear. Another company I called said they would try to come out the same week, didn't come out till two and half weeks later and on that visit just looked over the system and said they could COME OUT LATER and clean the salt tank, make sure the meter was set correctly and show my husband and I how everything works. The only problem was they couldn't give me an exact date/time of when they could come out, just that they would call that day. During this whole time we were not adding any salt to the tank because I thought they would just have to dump it all out and the company could be coming out any day. Once we were approaching 5+ weeks of me calling and them stating we will try this week over and over, not to mention we no longer had soft water, I said forget it and called Culligan. (I should mention that after the fact of not adding salt someone has told me that could ruin the softener, which may have happened) The Culligan representative promptly came out however, they simply (at first) took a brief look at the system, didn't explain anything and then came inside to tell me the softener was not functioning at all and started to explain their models they could sell me. I told the Culligan representative that the purpose of having him come out was not to sell me one of their systems but to service my existing system and I wanted to know exactly what was wrong with it. Upon saying this he told me that the manual timered valve was set to backwash at 2am but that the clock was off....."so can you show me how to reset that?" I asked. We then walked outside and he walked me through this. From his observation the resin is bad because there appeared to be iron in the salt tank. By the time he came there was no salt in the tank at all and I explained that we hadn't added any salt for over a month but prior to that the water had the distinct slippery feel of softened water we just didn't like the slight salty taste. Over the phone the Culligan representative that I set the appointment up with said it would be highly unlikely that new resin would be needed on a system only 6 years old. The Culligan representative also stated we should replace the Fleck control because he couldn't turn the wheel to manually regenerate so that component was bad. I said I would like a quote for the repairs and he called a few days later with an amount of $750-$800 (I believe this doesn't include the $150 service fee).

Following the Culligan visit, my husband and I cleaned out the salt tank, removing any iron deposits and filled the tank with salt pellets. We had to go out of town for two weeks and are now looking to either replace or repair the softener. I was just reading that if the tank is using salt at a normal rate but you have no soft water, the resin bed has probably become saturated with iron deposits or been damaged by chlorine and can no longer be regenerated by the brine. If it isn't using much or any salt, the problem is most likely a bad valve head, meaning the resin bed isn't getting recharged with brine water at all. I just checked the salt tank today and it looks like none of the salt has been used at all. Should we 1) Only replace the Fleck valve head (I would like to convert to metered valve) and clean the resin beds using iron removing chemicals? 2) Replace Fleck valve head and resin beds? 3) purchase a completely new system?

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or advice and will gladly provide more information if needed.

 

[Reach4]

You can get a Fleck 5600 service manual. See http://waterpurification.pentair.com/en-US/product/fleck/ Click on the picture of your softener controller, and download a manual. Is your controller one that regenerates after a number of gallons (Econominder) or one that regenerates on a fixed schedule? Probably gallons. I ended up at http://waterpurification.pentair.co...rvice-manual-downflow-current-40106-rev-j.pdf for what I think you probably have.

You want to put salt into the brine tank. I would tilt the salt boundary so that some salt is above water and there is water at the surface over much or all of the water level. That will let you make proper brine without having more salt in there to clean out if it comes to that.

Going without salt did not ruin the softener , but it might have degraded the resin. To get things going for now, I would pour an extra 2 gallons of water into the brine tank. Let that sit for 3 or more hours and trigger a regeneration. If things get going again, you don't need new resin yet.

If you had an electronic control, we would try to lengthen the brine draw/slow rinse time. That should be long enough that the water coming out of the drain is not salty. That may not be possible with your unit. Instead somebody might recognize what you could clean.

10 x 35 inches is a 1 cuft softener.

 

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[Bodie01]

The controller is on a fixed time schedule, not based on usage. Even if we can get this working I will eventually replace this controller with one that is based on our usage. I believe I located the manual http://petersonsalt.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/5600service.pdf. If I remember correctly, the Culligan representative stated that ours was set to regenerate every day at 2am. Is regeneration the same as backwashing? Should this be done every day? I added more water, it appeared as though there was no water in the brine tank at all. By adding this water and letting it sit will the regeneration happen on its on or do I need to turn the knob on the controller?

 

[Reach4]

Backwashing is part of a regeneration. It is the main part of a filter regeneration. Filters are usually set to backwash on a fixed schedule. For a softener, backwashing is a big part of backwashing regenerating, but there is also brine draw, slow rinse, fast rinse, brine fill and maybe more.

Regenerating daily is uncommon for a softener. It is what somebody might do in desperation trying to get the thing working.

Does your softener control look like the drawing in the PDF I linked to? You might want to post a photo if you are not sure what your softener is.

 

[Bannerman]

Time clock softeners have long been a standard but as they regenerate whether or not all or no water was consumed, they are now considered inefficient and wasteful.

The frequency of regeneration is determined by the amount of hardness in the water, the capacity of the softener and the amount of water treated which is often estimated by the number of occupants. Water consumption is now typically estimated as 60 gallons/day/person when equipped with higher efficiency appliances/fixtures whereas it had previously been estimated at 75 gallons/day/pp when using non efficient appliances/fixtures.

It is generally desirable for regeneration to occur not more than 1X per week, while using an efficient salt setting or 6 or 8 lbs/cu/ft. While your existing 1 cu/ft system has a total capacity of 32,000 grains, it will provide 20,000 grains of usable capacity when programmed to use 6 lbs of salt per regeneration whereas 8 lbs/salt will provide 24,000 grains of usable capacity.

For example, if your water contained 20 grains of hardness per gallon, your softener when using 6 lbs of salt, could then supply 1000 gallons before regeneration is again required. If there is only two of you and if you each averaged 60 gallons/day, the expected regeneration frequency would then be 1000 / 60 / 2 = 8.3 days = 8 (rounded) less 1 day reserve = 7 days.

The existing regeneration frequency may have been set for every night for the following reasons:

• your hardness may actually be higher (you didn't specify the hardness level)
• the home may previously have had many occupants
• a lesser amount of softening capacity (and salt) was programmed
• since the softener was the only device to remove iron, each ppm of iron removed is equivalent to 4 grains of hardness thereby requiring/consuming additional softening capacity
• regeneration needs to be more frequent when removing iron

The appropriate starting point is knowing what and how much is in the water so that the type and level of suitable treatment maybe determined. If a water analysis wasn't obtained when you purchased or at least within the past few years, you should obtain an up-to-date comprehensive test.

Hopefully, your new iron removal system was installed ahead of the softener so that the softener will no longer need to deal with iron.

While you mentioned of having cleaned the brine tank (recommended on an annual basis), you didn't mention adding water. It is common for softeners to be configured to add water to the brine tank as the last task of the regeneration cycle. That then prepares brine for the next upcoming regen cycle. Each gallon added to the brine tank will dissolve 3 lbs of salt.

As the softener ran short of salt and all capacity was exhausted, the total capacity should be restored by regenerating 2X, each with 15 lbs of salt. You can manually place additional water into the brine tank at least 2.5 hours before regeneration. You may also add a resin cleaner such as 'Iron Out', 'Super Iron Out' or 'Rescare' to the added water so as to start dissolving any iron build-up from the resin and internal surfaces.

You mention the manual regen lever not operating but you should test it yourself. If you cannot get the lever to move, advance the timer so that the 2am regen initiation is the current time. Do this when you are available to watch the regen cycle. Once the cycle is initiated, it may take 20-30 minutes before you hear any water flow.

 

[Bodie01]

Attached is the exact Fleck meter we have. I checked this afternoon and the salt and water level are exactly the same as yesterday and the water is completely clear, not a brine. Was able to turn the dial to regenerate but nothing happened and then turned it as far as I could (ended up on Brine) and cannot get it to move anymore. Unfortunately the filtration system is installed after the softener so that could be why the previous residents (who did not have any iron removal system) had regeneration set to everyday. There was also 3 adults and 1 child in the home versus just myself and my husband now. We will tie the softener in after the filtration system most certainly when replacing the softener. Also, I just got a TDS meter and ordered Res Care softener cleaner (wasn't available at local store). I'll use this to clean the system once it arrives hopefully tomorrow, however if I can't get it to manually regenerate I'm not sure how that will work. The TDS meter measurement came out at 169 ppm. Could there be a clog causing the dial to not move or regeneration not to happen?

Results from initial water testing:
Lead: negative
Copper: 0-0.5 ppm
Iron: 0.3 ppm (prior to whole home filtration with iron filter installed)
Total Nitrate/Nitrite: 0.5 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
pH: 8.5
Total Hardness: 18 grains per gallon (measured while softener has not been working)
Total Chlorine: 0 ppm

Thank you for your advice and help!!!

 

[Bannerman]

Your valve is a Fleck 5600. A rebuild kit is available at a reasonable cost and doing the work is relatively easy as videos available on-line clearly show the procedure if you should wish to repair it and attempt it yourself. Here is one parts vendor who also produces instructional videos: http://www.softenerparts.com/Fleck_5600_Valve_and_Parts_s/30.htm

As you mention an intention of updating the softener with an on-demand (metered) control, the 5600 is available with a mechanical meter (Fleck 5600 Econominder) as well as a newer digital control (Fleck 5600SXT). Fleck also produce a 7000SXT valve, either model is appropriate for your application. I'm not aware if your existing valve can be converted to a metered version.

You could replace the control valve likely at less than 1/2 the quoted cost, if you perform the work yourself. Not difficult.

You mention that water is within the brine tank but no brine. If the water has contact with the salt, then brine was produced but usually will appear clear. As previously stated, the brine saturation is 3 lbs per gallon of water.

As you were able to physically turn the control, at least partially, I expect that you would have heard water flowing when the Backwash cycle was indicated. If water flow was not heard, check the backside water connections to ensure the Bypass valve has not been set to 'Bypass' whereby water is not being directed through the softener. Various bypass valve images are shown here: http://waterpurification.pentair.com/en-US/product/accessories-meters/bypass-valve/

I had suggested setting 2am as the current time as that should initiate a regeneration cycle if the control is actually functioning, even if you're not able to initiate using the usual manual procedure.

As you had the iron removal filter installed, knowledgeable installers should have installed the iron removal system preceding the softener.

You indicate hardness is 18 grains/gallon and iron as 0.3 ppm. Manganese is not indicated nor is your level of Hydrogen Sulphide which is usually the cause of sulphur smell.

A TDS meter is not utilized for setting-up/testing a softener but it is usually used for testing drinking water output from a Reverse Osmosis system.. A reliable hardness test is the Hach 5-B kit such as shown here: