Fleck 7000 SXT Repair or replace with?

[Tam]

I have a 1.5 CF water softener with a Fleck 7000 SXT valve and a whole house Carbon Filter also with a Fleck 7000 valve that I installed in 2012. Worked fine until the last 4-5 months. I've had two times recently that we have found the water to be hard 28-30 Grains, which is the level of the untreated well water. I'm looking for help as to if it is worth the trouble of rebuilding the valve because of it's age or should I just get a new valve. If a new valve which one do you recommend? Another Fleck or a Clack WS1? I probable would prefer having both the water softener and carbon filter to have the same control valve, but perhaps not an absolute need although the carbon filter is the same age and may need valve replacement in the not too distant future.
There are only two of us, both retired, in the house and 3 bathrooms.

My water system is well water that first gets chlorine injected, then goes into two 80 gal tanks for contact time to remove 1.4 mg/L iron,.181 mg/L manganese, hydrogen sulfur smell and kill any bacteria. The water then goes through a whole house 2 CF carbon filter ( also with a Fleck 7000 SXT valve) and finally through the 1.5 CF water softener to remove the 30 grains of hardness and any remaining iron. The resin in the softener is SST 60.
Thanks for any thoughts, Terry

 

[Reach4]

Your carbon media (GAC) may be exhausted, and not removing chlorine. I would measure the residual chlorine with low-range test strips.

If the residual is high, that could have degraded the softener resin.

I see no reason to blame the valves yet.

Another thing that could happen to the softener is that there is something making the resin get properly regenerated. How long into the softener brine draw cycle has the brine been sucked down to the middle of the air check valve? Normal is on the order of 1/4 of the BD number in your programming.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Tam]

Your carbon media (GAC) may be exhausted, and not removing chlorine. I would measure the residual chlorine with low-range test strips.

If the residual is high, that could have degraded the softener resin.

I see no reason to blame the valves yet.

Another thing that could happen to the softener is that there is something making the resin get properly regenerated. How long into the softener brine draw cycle has the brine been sucked down to the middle of the air check valve? Normal is on the order of 1/4 of the BD number in your programming.

Thanks for your response and suggestions. I just checked the water coming out of the carbon filter with a cl test kit and there is no break through so the carbon is taking it all out. By calculation base on CF , chlorine level going into the filter and water usage the carbon should last into the 2030's. The Brine Draw is set to 80 min. and I have not timed how long until the brine level gets to the middle of the check valve, but I will try to measure that. I'll let you know.

 

[Tam]

Thanks for your response and suggestions. I just checked the water coming out of the carbon filter with a cl test kit and there is no break through so the carbon is taking it all out. By calculation base on CF , chlorine level going into the filter and water usage the carbon should last into the 2030's. The Brine Draw is set to 80 min. and I have not timed how long until the brine level gets to the middle of the check valve, but I will try to measure that. I'll let you know.

I ran the unit through a regen. it's difficult to be vary accurate about when the brine level gets halfway down on the check value, I can only see a top view of the side of the check valve housing. From what I could tell it was over 15 mins and perhaps close to 20 min. If a more accurate measurement is needed I'll need to remove the assemble and attach some type of marker at the half point of the check valve housing and redo the test.

 

[Reach4]

close enough. Looking for big discrepancies, such as not going down at all. A clogged injector injector screen could have caused that symptom.

How sensitive is your chlorine test kit?

Are the tanks painted, or natural tan. If tan, you can shine a light thru during backwash to make sure they have bed expansion.

 

[Tam]

close enough. Looking for big discrepancies, such as not going down at all. A clogged injector injector screen could have caused that symptom.

How sensitive is your chlorine test kit?

Are the tanks painted, or natural tan. If tan, you can shine a light thru during backwash to make sure they have bed expansion.

The test kit I use is a Hach Free Chlorine 0-3.4 mg/L CL2 Smallest increment is 0.1 mg/L using DPD Free Chlorine Reagent.
The softener tank is black and the carbon is blue so not possible to see anything.
I haven't detected a noticeable change in flow like when the wash machine is filling and I'm in the shower the flow doesn't seem to change.
Either the brine tank would need to fill to the float shutting the fill off after a number of regenerations . I noticed this morning that the water level in the brine tank is higher than I've noticed before. The level came up to where the float shut it off. I had screwed around and changed the fill time to 34 which with a .125 gpm brine fill would only put in 4 1/4 gals. That doesn't seem to be enough to get the level up to the float. I now reset the softener as follows: Capacity 33,000 grains, feed water hardness 33 which is 28 hardness and 1.5 iron & .18 manganese, reserve 150 gals, day over ride 14, Cycle steps:
Backwash - 15 min, BD - 80 min, Backwash - 25 min, RR - 25 min, BF - 28 min.

 

[Reach4]

On your hardness compensation, there is also something called "high hardness compensation".

Fleck 9100 SXT Programming/Settings

I am finally installing my new Fleck 9100 SXT!!! Thanks to the help of many on these forums, I am getting it done...slowly! Final assistance I need is on programming the darn thing. A little about the system and water: Each tank = 2 cu. ft (64K) BLFC - 0.5 gpm DLFC - has nothing listed...I...

www.terrylove.com

System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft : 8 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC : 0.125 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin : 1.5 ; Same as (nominal grains/32,000)
Raw hardness : 33.0 ; including iron etc
Estimated gal/day : 160.0 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Estimated days each regen : 5.7 ; presuming days each use reserve capacity

Fleck 7000SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF2b ; Downflw/Upflw, Double Backwash
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
C = 36.0 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 40 ; Hardness grains after compensation
RS = cr ; Cr = base reserve on recent experience
CR = 0 ; 0 is default (leave it)
DO = 28 ; Day Override (typ 28 if no iron/Mn)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
B1 = 8 ; Backwash 1 (minutes)
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes with #1 Injector - White. I would go 70 with a #0 Injector - Red and 95 with #00 Injector - Violet
B2 = 5 ; Backwash 2 (minutes)
RR = 6 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 32 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = t1.2 (usual) ; t1.2 is default flow meter


Revised based on number from https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/help-for-programming-fleck-5810.82673/#post-595983
The less salt per cubic ft, the more salt efficient, but more hardness breakthrough.
BLFC 0.125
cubic ft resin 1.5

Alternative capacity (C) and brine fill (BF) pairs. Round C down.
lb/cuft C= BF= grains/pound of salt

5.8 30.9 23 3578
6.0 31.5 24 3503
6.3 32.2 25 3431
6.5 32.8 26 3362
6.8 33.4 27 3295
7.0 33.9 28 3231
7.3 34.5 29 3169
7.5 35.0 30 3110
7.8 35.5 31 3053
8.0 36.0 32 2997
8.3 36.4 33 2944
8.5 36.9 34 2892

 

[Tam]

On your hardness compensation, there is also something called "high hardness compensation".

Fleck 9100 SXT Programming/Settings

I am finally installing my new Fleck 9100 SXT!!! Thanks to the help of many on these forums, I am getting it done...slowly! Final assistance I need is on programming the darn thing. A little about the system and water: Each tank = 2 cu. ft (64K) BLFC - 0.5 gpm DLFC - has nothing listed...I...

www.terrylove.com

System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft : 8 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC : 0.125 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin : 1.5 ; Same as (nominal grains/32,000)
Raw hardness : 33.0 ; including iron etc
Estimated gal/day : 160.0 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Estimated days each regen : 5.7 ; presuming days each use reserve capacity

Fleck 7000SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF2b ; Downflw/Upflw, Double Backwash
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
C = 36.0 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 40 ; Hardness grains after compensation
RS = cr ; Cr = base reserve on recent experience
CR = 0 ; 0 is default (leave it)
DO = 28 ; Day Override (typ 28 if no iron/Mn)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
B1 = 8 ; Backwash 1 (minutes)
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
B2 = 5 ; Backwash 2 (minutes)
RR = 6 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 32 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = t1.2 (usual) ; t1.2 is default flow meter


Revised based on number from https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/help-for-programming-fleck-5810.82673/#post-595983
The less salt per cubic ft, the more salt efficient, but more hardness breakthrough.
BLFC 0.125
cubic ft resin 1.5

Alternative capacity (C) and brine fill (BF) pairs. Round C down.
lb/cuft C= BF= grains/pound of salt

5.8 30.9 23 3578
6.0 31.5 24 3503
6.3 32.2 25 3431
6.5 32.8 26 3362
6.8 33.4 27 3295
7.0 33.9 28 3231
7.3 34.5 29 3169
7.5 35.0 30 3110
7.8 35.5 31 3053
8.0 36.0 32 2997
8.3 36.4 33 2944
8.5 36.9 34 2892

I don't have knowledge about what cycle step times are the most appropriate, but I looked at what the manufacturer recommended for SST60 resin. for B1 spec is 5-20 so 8 is ok, DD is a function of how many gals of water is needed to dissolve the correct amount of salt. For 32 minutes of BF and a .125 injector gives 4 gals and min draw is 23 mins. I was under the understanding the time should be 3.5 to 4 times the minimum which is 80-92 minutes so I'm confused about the 60 minute time given. B2 for SST 60 is 12-60 so 5 is below spec, RR is 6-30 so 6 is in spec. I didn't know how important it was to stay within the specs for the resin.

 

[Reach4]

.125 is the BLFC button. The injector is a different factor.

I edited the BD numbers above to give different numbers based on the injector.

If BD is too short, there can be some residual salt after a regeneration. That would clear up.

 

[Tam]

.125 is the BLFC button. The injector is a different factor.

I edited the BD numbers above to give different numbers based on the injector.

If BD is too short, there can be some residual salt after a regeneration. That would clear up.

OK, I'll make the recommended settings. I used the word injector for lack of memory of the actual name. I'll continue to keep a close eye on the unit as something must to be going wrong to run out of soft water twice in about 3-4 months. I need to run it through manual regenerations whenever it shows a regeneration happening that night. I'm not getting up at 2:00 to watch.

 

[Reach4]

OK, I'll make the recommended settings. I used the word injector for lack of memory of the actual name. I'll continue to keep a close eye on the unit as something must to be going wrong to run out of soft water twice in about 3-4 months. I need to run it through manual regenerations whenever it shows a regeneration happening that night. I'm not getting up at 2:00 to watch.

You might lift the cover and look for a label that states what injector number is being used. Alternatively look at the injector color, and while you are there, you could clean the injector screen. However, I don't think a clogged injector screen is a problem for you, because your brine does get drawn.

I will say that because your BD was not 60, it means that somebody put some thought into your programming.

I think the big difference for you is the raising of the H number. The algorithm is that the initial gallons indication for the count-down is C/H-R where R is the reserve gallons. The R is based on experience.

If you want a 150 gallon fixed reserve, change the settings to have
RS = rc
RC = 150

 

[Bannerman]

I just checked the water coming out of the carbon filter with a cl test kit and there is no break through so the carbon is taking it all out.

Carbon's capacity to remove a broad range of chemical contaminants by adsorption is not equal for all contaminants. Because carbon has an extremely high capacity for chlorine, chlorine will often continue to be removed long after the carbon's capacity to remove many other contaminants has been exceeded. As such, chlorine breakthrough is not an effective indicator of when to replace carbon media.

Since chlorine is neutralized so rapidly, the majority of the carbon bed will have only minimal if any contact with chlorine, bacteria growth within the media bed may occur over time.

In addition, because repeated backwashing can cause the carbon to become fractured into smaller pieces, the usual recommended replacement interval for 2ft3 carbon is 7-9 years.

 

[Tam]

You might lift the cover and look for a label that states what injector number is being used. Alternatively look at the injector color, and while you are there, you could clean the injector screen. However, I don't think a clogged injector screen is a problem for you, because your brine does get drawn.

I will say that because your BD was not 60, it means that somebody put some thought into your programming.

I think the big difference for you is the raising of the H number. The algorithm is that the initial gallons indication for the count-down is C/H-R where R is the reserve gallons. The R is based on experience.

If you want a 150 gallon fixed reserve, change the settings to have
RS = rc
RC = 150

The indicates the injector is #00 which I believe has a draw rate .175 GPM
BLFC is given as .125 GPM
I spent a good amount of time on this site learning, which has helped me make settings.

 

[Tam]

Carbon's capacity to remove a broad range of chemical contaminants by adsorption is not equal for all contaminants. Because carbon has an extremely high capacity for chlorine, chlorine will often continue to be removed long after the carbon's capacity to remove many other contaminants has been exceeded. As such, chlorine breakthrough is not an effective indicator of when to replace carbon media.

Since chlorine is neutralized so rapidly, the majority of the carbon bed will have only minimal if any contact with chlorine, bacteria growth within the media bed may occur over time.

In addition, because repeated backwashing can cause the carbon to become fractured into smaller pieces, the usual recommended replacement interval for 2ft3 carbon is 7-9 years.

I did not realize that. What I had originally read was you will start to notice all chlorine is being removed and at that time just increase the backwash frequency until new media is installed. Sounds like I need to order new carbon as the unit was installed in 11/2012. So 11 years on it now. If I'm going to have the unit disassembled it begs the question should I change out the control valve. It's also a Fleck 7000 SXT. I'm not sure how long they generally last and parts will continue to get harder to find in the future. Although I assume just switching valve heads in the future would not be difficult nor take the unit out of service vary long.
Thanks for the input
Terry

 

[Reach4]

So I still like 95 minutes with the #00.

I think chlorine removal is the main (if not only) job for this well water treatment.


Can you measure the chlorine level before the carbon?

Can you drain sediment from your contact tank(s)?

 

[Tam]

So I still like 95 minutes with the #00.

I think chlorine removal is the main (if not only) job for this well water treatment.


Can you measure the chlorine level before the carbon?

Can you drain sediment from your contact tank(s)?

I have set 95.
I can and do regularly measure chlorine level just before the carbon filter. I try to keep the free chlorine level around .7 to 2.0. There have been a number of times the chlorine injector has gotten plugged by crud in the raw water. It causes increased back pressure which in turn causes a pin hole leak in the Stenner pump tube. That prevented any chlorine from being injected. I now switch injectors every 2 months.
I can also get water samples just before the softener and I have 3 pressure gauges to measure pressure drop across both the carbon filter and softener. I haven't taken readings Pr for a long time but I will to get a baseline. That should help identify when & if the carbon is getting partially clogged by contaminates.
Yes I have sediment drains from the contact tanks and I bleed off sediment probably every 3-4 weeks

 

[Bannerman]

should help identify when & if the carbon is getting partially clogged by contaminates.

While some amount of physical contaminates will become trapped within the carbon bed, carbon is not the most effective filtration media for removing physical contaminants. Any contaminants that do become caught within the carbon bed, will be flushed away to drain during each Backwash cycle.

Unless there is a considerable quantity of visible sediment or other contaminants entering the carbon filter (ex: iron) between each backwash, there will unlikely be a significant reduction of flow through the carbon bed.

Carbon's primary filtration method is through adsorption. Adsorption signifies the removal of chemicals, gases and other contaminants, by their attraction and adhesion to the surface of the carbon. Due to carbon's porous structure, there is an extremely large surface area available for adsorption, typically between 73-112 acres per pound of activated carbon.

As water will always follow the path of least resistance, over time, flow will follow the same path (channeling) through the media, particularly when the flow rate is low, such as will usually occur in residential applications. Channeling results in the relatively small amount of media along the channel to be oversaturated, and therefore, less effective in removing contaminants to be filtered out.

Backwashing, in addition to flushing away physical contaminants, also reclassifies the media bed, thereby eliminating channels, resulting in the water to flow through a larger amount of media.

Channelling will occur over an extended amount of time, but the usual recommended backwash frequency is between 7-28 days. If there is visible sediment, then backwash more frequently (ie: weekly) whereas 28-days will be usually sufficient when the incoming water is visibly clear.

While your intent may have been primarily for chlorine removal, activated carbon is also effective for removing or at least significantly reducing toxic disinfection byproducts (DBP's) including THMs (trihalomethanes) and HAAs (haloacetic acids). As the contact time needed for removal, and the capacity for each contaminant can vary, recommend not waiting until there is some amount of chlorine breakthrough before replacing the carbon media.