Water Pressure Low After new Shower Valve Install

[vanDIY]

Hi all,

I recently finished a rough in for a new shower/tub system that includes hot/cold inlet, with outlets for tub spout, shower head, and shower wand.

After install I turned on the water and found a leak in the hot water supply (missed a crimp ring... oops) . I'm the process of resolving that mistake found that the water was both pressurized and warm at that pt.

However, once fixed, the water pressure at the shower head, faucet and wand connections were all very low and proceeded to get lower over the course of testing. I tried plugs in the drop ears, shower head and faucet on/off, all valve settings. Water pressure in the end barely enough to even reach the shower head (though it was at first with some medium to low pressure).

This is a conversion of a basement half bathroom to a full. The supply lines were teed into from above as there is another full bathroom directly above. My first thought was too many fittings on the line, but the upstairs bathroom still has high pressure. this, combined with my experience with the leak leads me to think I'm missing something with the valve itself, or something in it isn't working properly.

valve is threaded 1/2", I used 1/2" pex to the shower head and shower wand, and supply piping. Threaded brass to the spout.

It's a Casainc systemwide valve of the attached type.

Thanks for any help and advice!

 

[WorthFlorida]

Is this for both hot and cold and any anywhere in the middle?

Debris could be jammed in the valve body or in the cartridge is restricting flow. Remove the cartridge and flush the system. Obviously there should be plenty of water flow with an empty valve body. If not the restriction is from the tee to the valve body.

Did the the valve body come with a test plug for pressure testing without using the cartridge? Possible the diverted valve is jammed with something.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jeff H Young]

integral stops open all the way?

 

[vanDIY]

Is this for both hot and cold and any anywhere in the middle?

Debris could be jammed in the valve body or in the cartridge is restricting flow. Remove the cartridge and flush the system. Obviously there should be plenty of water flow with an empty valve body. If not the restriction is from the tee to the valve body.

Did the the valve body come with a test plug for pressure testing without using the cartridge? Possible the diverted valve is jammed with something.

This is for both hot and cold valve positions, yes. Forgot to say, however, the water does not seem to be getting hot either. (Though like I said, due to the leak, I know hot water is coming down the supply line!)

As for the valve test plug, I don't see anything like that, but not exactly sure what you mean. I did stick some 1/2" caps at the drop ears to see if I could presurize the others but nothing.

There cartridge being jammed with something seems possible. The valve came assembled and I have not tried to take it apart yet. All I can think of is that once I had it in place I did drill one more hole in the stud above so there was some sawdust that landed on it and maybe some got inside... we'd be talking falling a few feet into an opening the size of a 1/2" pex fitting, but maybe that's all it takes! In that case it would have come in from the shower outlet opening.

 

[vanDIY]

integral stops open all the way?

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the reply. Sorry I'm still relatively new to this and not sure what you mean by integral stops. I have had the valve open all the way both hot and cold, and the water supply to the house is full open as well.

 

[vanDIY]

Been learning more about integral stops, apparently common on most valves. Would certainly explain a lot! However, if they do exist in this model they don't seem to be in an obvious place, possibly some disasembly required...

 

[John Gayewski]

Yes take the valve apart and flush. There could be a hot water limiter in that valve that may need adjusted. I'm not familiar with particular valve and in these cases I call the manufacturer. Not sure how this brand's customer service is, but they should be available to help with common problems associated with these.

 

[WorthFlorida]

Check if your valve body has built in stops. The picture below calls them Adjustable Water Flow Screw. You close these off when wanting to replace the cartridge and Not have to shut off the water to the entire bathroom

 

[WorthFlorida]

Delta brand valve body comes with a plug that fits where the cartridge would go for pressure testing needed for inspection.

 

[vanDIY]

Check if your valve body has built in stops. The picture below calls them Adjustable Water Flow Screw. You close these off when wanting to replace the cartridge and Not have to shut off the water to the entire bathroom


View attachment 92986

Thanks for that. A very similar model but unfortunately the valve I have does not appear to have that shutoff. At least not readily visible.

20230618-120230 hosted at ImgBB

Image 20230618-120230 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Hopefully that link works to show what I am looking at. I can try to dissamble the valve just exhausting other options first.

 

[vanDIY]

Hi all,

Thanks for the help above. I have some updates that may help for those considering the CasaINC systems. I saw that Terry posted about them here trepidatiously:

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/casainc-shower-valve.102525/

I have been in contract with them in hopes that they could help troubleshoot. Here is my experience so far:

- consistent email response within 24 hours, but due to timezone differences they arrive in the middle of the night for me, so that makes the process slow
- they requested that I send some videos of what was happening and for about a week told me their engineering team was looking into it
- they sent me a video of how to remove the cartridge (since I asked for it, and it was not shown in the in-box instuctions)
- after a while they told me they were shipping me a new valve believing the existing one is defective. When I asked why they believed it was defective I couldn't get a good answer, so I assume they don't know

Not sure how that level of customer service compares to other suppliers, but overall I'd say could be better, could be worse 5/10. Appreciate an attempt to help and send a new valve even though they weren't too helpful otherwise.

Now... back to the troubleshooting that I am going through today while I wait for the new valve. I plan to send the following to Casa Inc. but hoping the members here could help as well!

1. I removed the valve cartridge. Looking at the cartridge itself, I didn't see any noticeable damage or blockages

356566600-171370822597179-504211993746511127-n hosted at ImgBB

Image 356566600-171370822597179-504211993746511127-n hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

2. I also removed the line to the shower. I took a flashlight and looked down the pipe. It does look like their is some mild debris inside, but nothing that should block flow as much as it is being blocked. Also recall that the faucet and shower wand branches have very low flow as well (that wouldn't be impacted by the shower pipe).

3. Wondering if it is normal that the shower exit is only partially open.

354676144-937913497315005-2988156143910794120-n hosted at ImgBB

Image 354676144-937913497315005-2988156143910794120-n hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

4. With the valve our and shower pipe removed I then tested turning the water back on. Interestingly, the water comes firing out of the cold side and full pressure, and barely dribbling out of the hot side! Hard to capture on video, but can see it here:

355867992_6331796213540082_6899944385326702751_n

Watch "355867992_6331796213540082_6899944385326702751_n" on Streamable.

streamable.com

When testing with the valve in, I also noticed a quiet hum coming from the cold side suggesting there was a lot of backed up pressure, maybe? For some reason the hot water is not making it into the valve. Reminder that the line I tee'd into is from the bathroom above, which is getting hot water no problem. I tested and it took about 10s to get hot upstairs.

~~~


Based on this, it does not seem like the cartridge is the issue - it's either something in the hot water side of the valve body, or something in the pipe upstream.

Any ideas of what could be going on, or what to try next? Soak the entire valve body in vinegar? remove the hot water connection and confirm hot water is coming out of the pipe? Any clever ways to see if upstream pipe has pressure without opening it up.

Cheers again for all the help!

 

[John Gayewski]

It sounds like there is an obstruction in the hot. Since shower valves are pressure balanced this would then effect the cold. Since the next up upstream fixture is getting full flow its between those two fixtures. Better take it apart and redo it.

 

[vanDIY]

Update: cut the hot supply right at the valve to test. Turned water on and coming out with pressure and temperature! Must be something internal to the valve body on the hot side but not the cartidge. Nothing visible unfortunately so maybe it really is just a defective valve. The new one is on its way. I could try soaking this one in vinegar... but not sure it'll do anything.

CasaInc was very wick to assume a defective valve which makes me think it's not the first time.

 

[Weekend Handyman]

I would never buy a valve that not 'main stream' in my market (Moen, Delta, etc.). It's just too much of a pain to fix if it doesn't work as it should.

 

[Jeff H Young]

looks like the hot side is plugged ? or Im blind is water blating out the hot and cold ports with cartridge removed? Sorry I havent re read all the posts.( see video in post 11)

 

[vanDIY]

looks like the hot side is plugged ? or Im blind is water blating out the hot and cold ports with cartridge removed? Sorry I havent re read all the posts.( see video in post 11)

No you're not blind, that is what is happening. Something blocked on the hot side in the valve body

 

[vanDIY]

I would never buy a valve that not 'main stream' in my market (Moen, Delta, etc.). It's just too much of a pain to fix if it doesn't work as it should.

For sure! Didn't give enough consideration or know what was 'main stream' when I ordered. Lesson learned. Hopefully you all can learn from my mistakes

I will say the finishing fittings do look great, so once I get the valve to work I'll be happy with the purchase

 

[John Gayewski]

There are plenty of good trim available from delta or moen or one of the others. They ship out cheap run of the mill trim to Lowes and home depot and menards. But there is very high end extremely nice looking stuff available from reputable huge manufacturers.

 

[John Gayewski]

When I get suckered into doing small jobs for people I don't let them pick the brand they get two choices delta or moen. They can without exception find a trim they like. Either that or they can find someone else to do it. Pretty much the same deal at work. We really only install delta for residential. The boss doesn't want bs calls.

 

[vanDIY]

Final update:

CasaInc sent me new check valves (the small circles that the water was coming out of in the images and videos above). I was expecting to receive a completely new valve body. However, I removed the existing ones, whcih i hadnt done yet, and wouldn't you know it a little bit of wood shavings plugged in that hot water side. I flushed it out, reinserted the check valves... and it's working! I actually did consider this, but didn't find the culprit until now:

The cartridge being jammed with something seems possible. The valve came assembled and I have not tried to take it apart yet. All I can think of is that once I had it in place I did drill one more hole in the stud above so there was some sawdust that landed on it and maybe some got inside... we'd be talking falling a few feet into an opening the size of a 1/2" pex fitting, but maybe that's all it takes! In that case it would have come in from the shower outlet opening.

So in the end, user error... although perhaps not all valves clog that easily, I don't know. Feels a little silly to have gone through all this and in the end sawdust was the problem... but glad to have it working. Thanks all for your help!