Water level in all three toilets receding

[Mrbintx]

We recently purchased a new construction townhome (haven't moved it yet). We had issues with bellies under the foundation that were corrected by the builder (tunneled under foundation). After that fix, we noticed that all three toilets had low water in the bowls so we did the following:

We reset the toilet bowl water levels in all three toilets and monitored it for a week. During this time we did not run any water or flush any toilets. The water level in all three of our toilets has dropped by almost 2 inches in a week. We do not see any sign of leaking around any of the toilets (master and ½ bath are not caulked).

The results can be seen in the photos below. There is about a 1 inch drop overnight (from 02/20 to 02/21) and then continued drop through the week (to 02/27).

We are struggling to understand why the water level would recede like this in all three new toilets. Again, townhome is empty and we were very careful not to run any water over the last week.

Thanks for any insight you might have on what is causing this.

Mike

 

[John Gayewski]

Try cleaning the flappers and seats in the tanks.

Use food coloring in the tank and check the bowl. If you see coloring in the bowl the flapper it's letting water into the bowl and causing siphon.

Sounds like crappy toilets if this is the problem.

I think normal evaporation like reach says is more likley

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

1. evaporation in low relative humidty
2. animals drinking.
3. unlikely, but something weird happing with the venting.

To test for evaporation, cover the rim area of one of the toilets with Saran Wrap.
Don't forget to remove that before use, and resist the temptation to leave it there as a practical joke.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Ive only seen water drop like that when there is a plumbing problem stoppages , extremely windy perhaps.
there was obviously very very serious issues with plumbing tunneling under to fix bellies isnt a common thing .
Im not seeing this as a bad flapper how could that be? flapper holds water in the tank not the bowl
whats a little puzzling is the fact that all 3 toilets arent on ground floor . some hokey plumbing is my guess but cant put a finger on it, assuming no one drinking water out your toilets as well

 

[Mrbintx]

Thanks for the quick responses.

No animals in the house. Hard to believe evaporation could cause that level of drop overnight (02/20 to 02/21).

Wind was not excessive. Saw some minor movement of the water on some days, but, nothing that would pull over an inch of water over the trap.

Regarding blockage, we watched as the plumbers put a camera through the drains after the belly fix. No longer any standing water and clumps of toilet paper flowed freely to the city sewer line from all toilets. Toilets appear to flush OK. Sinks drain well.

Let me know if you have any more thoughts on this.

Mike

 

[John Gayewski]

Im not seeing this as a bad flapper how could that be? flapper holds water in the tank not the bowl

A bad flapper can cause a toilet to siphon.

 

[Jeff H Young]

i havent had a flapper do that but i guess it could i wouldnt expect 5 or 10 ounces over a day to do that but trust it could if youve seen it john . i guess id shut angle stop and monitor tank to be sure. 3 new identical toilets the ruber on flapper could be stiff or something. No other likely causes so a good look at that would be in order

 

[Mrbintx]

Thank you all for your professional insight and time. This has given us a better appreciation for plumbing,

Regarding flapper siphoning, I had tried the following:
- Turned off water supply to toilet
- Flushed and held open flapper until tank water was below level of flapper/opening
- Slowly filled the water bowl until it was at the maximum level
- Let it set like this overnight without running any other water in home
The results were the same as shown in the pictures above. The water level in the toilet dropped by about one inch overnight.

Some Additional Information:
- The 3 new toilets are all Western Brand
- Plumber did a <jet cleaning> after 2 belly repairs, to remove some left over debris. Pipe with debris, was located under driveway section, leading to city sewer pipe drain area.
- After the jet flush, ONE of three toilets immediately lost a LOT of water due to negative pressure it had created in pipes.
- The 3 toilets water didn't recede, like this, before any of these major repairs were done
- Two (downstairs) of the three toilets were removed & put back, to put camera down to evaluate pipes
- All toilets have their OWN air vents <no running water, anywhere, during evaluation of evaporation in toilets>.
- Our neighbor that had similar repairs, is losing <no water> in her 3 toilets.
- Our neighbor <didn't have> Jet Flushing for debris in pipe clean out.
- The guy doing camera scoping <of ours> mentioned there were a lot of purple color trails in pipes, and rough edges

Thank you,
Mike

 

[Weekend Handyman]

I am not a plumber or a pro.

These are some wild guesses:

- I wonder if there is some packaging in the toilet trapways that is wicking water. Maybe the builder would have a different toilet you could try to exclude the toilet as an issue.

- I wondering if the building drain and/or the building sewer being significantly over-pitched could be syphoning out all of the traps in the house. Are the water levels dropping in the other fixture traps.

 

[Jeff H Young]

I dont think the problem is the grade being more than minimum code causing it.
Highly unusual problems and its not normal to tunnel under the building , or have bellies something shoddy perhaps they werent much better plumbing above ground? So you got unusual problems and possibly further unknown or disclosed issues. we are shooting in the dark here

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Are any of these toilets back to back installation with another toilet?

 

[Mrbintx]

No back to back toilets. The 3 bathrooms are as follows:
1) 1/2 Bath downstairs: Toilet and sink are on the same drain/vent
2) Master Bath downstairs: Toilet, 2 sinks and shower on the same drain/vent
3) Bath upstairs: Toilet, sink and tub on the same drain/vent

Again, appreciate you time and insights.

 

[Reach4]

Is there an AAV that you know of?

 

[John Gayewski]

No back to back toilets. The 3 bathrooms are as follows:
1) 1/2 Bath downstairs: Toilet and sink are on the same drain/vent
2) Master Bath downstairs: Toilet, 2 sinks and shower on the same drain/vent
3) Bath upstairs: Toilet, sink and tub on the same drain/vent

Again, appreciate you time and insights.

You need to check the water level in other traps. You should be able to use a strong flashlight to see through the tubing under the sink and mark the water level. Check that against the levels in the toilet. We need to rule out natural evaporation. Otherwise we're just guessing.

 

[Reach4]

For test purposes, one of the clear slip-joint p-traps might be good. But the backlight looking thru the white plastic is easy enough.

Everbilt 1-1/2 in. Clear Plastic Sink Drain P-Trap C9705 - The Home Depot

P-Trap with 1-1/2 in. Inlet features polypropylene plastic construction. This P-trap is for use in tubular drain applications. Clear in color.

www.homedepot.com

 

[Jeff H Young]

an inch of water overnight is a lot of evaporation has the temp been triple digit? No real answer from me but i just dont see that being cause , he did say he could see water moving in bowl but said it wasent windy

 

[John Gayewski]

an inch of water overnight is a lot of evaporation has the temp been triple digit? No real answer from me but i just dont see that being cause , he did say he could see water moving in bowl but said it wasent windy

Wind in the pipes would increase evaporation which is the main reason for a minimum trap arm length.

 

[Peterson]

Years ago, I lived in a large highrise on the top floor and had a similar situation with the water receding out of the toilets. I'd go away for a weekend and return to find that the water in the bowls dropped significantly. Turns out it was the strong winds that were hitting the building, creating some kind of suction issue with the vent pipes that drew the water out of the bowls.

 

[Jeff H Young]

yea the wind can suck water out i mentioned that to op he said it wasent very windy . sucking water out or evaporating arent the same but either could explain it. but my pool dosent loose an inch of water on a not so windy night so i just dont buy evaporation. sucking water from trap far more likely

 

[Weekend Handyman]

I am not a plumber:

This is what I would do to try to narrow it down.

- Rule out Evaporation: Put a plastic bag over one of the toilets and tape it up good. Leave a lot of slack in the bag so air can still move within the sealed area (just want to rule out evaporation). If the water still drops it's likely not evaporation.

- Rule out the toilets: Swap out one of the toilets (with a different make/model). If the new toilet also loses water, it's likely not the toilet.

- Wind: Temporarily cover your vents. Obviously, you plumbing system will not work right while you do this! If the water still drops it is likely not wind.

- Take a video: Does the water go down at a consistent rate or in some big chunks. If it is happening in big chunks, is it at a specific time of day.

To confirm ... no one was running water in your house while you did your tests?