Two toilet rings, one hidden

[Vangary]

There are two water surfaces in the toilet. One is visible in the bowl and subject of much discussion. The other is not visible and probably results in many toilet replacements. I have never seen this discussed.

In the trap, not visible there is the top of the trap water, which is at the same level aa the bowl water. Scrubbing the bowl ring does nothing t0 stop the buildup of a ring of calcium, lime and the other culprits. As this builds up it catches, and holds, the detritus from the bowl, causing increasingly frequent backups and frustration.

My view is that there are three solutions:
1. Plumb the toilet with soft water.
2. Replace the toilet, just to get rid of the hidden ring.
3. Frequently dissolve the trap ring. The toilet bowl chemicals that prevent visible rings should be equally effective at preventing the trap ring.

Number three presents complex issues.

I have tried chemicals in the tank. They quickly destroy the flapper.

I have tried several of the little bricks that go into the side of the bowl. They are not fully effective at eliminating the visible deposits, and so are probably not effective at dealing with the trap ring. They also add perfume odors to the the room.

Would someone like to heip me out here?

Thank you. -Gary

 

[Standardairconditioner]

All toilet manufacturers make it clear that tank chemicals VOID their warranty. Having said that, I don't think any plumbing professional will endorse or recommend them.

You can, however, control the water you put into it. I feed room temperature water into my toilet so I get zero condensation on my tank, resulting in zero mold and mildew "under there". Not to mention the dry floor and flange under it.

It would be silly to have a water softner specifically for your toilet. It would be a better idea to have a water softner for your entire home water supply, which is what most hard water folks do.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

I have tried chemicals in the tank. They quickly destroy the flapper.

Kaboom and Fluidmaster make the gadgets that go in series with the bowl refill hose. If you enter Fluidmaster Kaboom in the search box at the top, you will find some prior discussions. The chlorine bleach cartridges work better than the Biobalance and Cleaning versions. Water efficient toilets have the fill valve provide just enough water to fill the bowl, so adding a little back pressure could cause the refill to be insufficient. I wonder if a replacement fill valve with adjustable refill amount could compensate and still let the bowl fill to its proper level after a flush.

You would probably like a water softener. People sometimes do not pipe the soft water to the cold line of the kitchen sink. Most people do not pipe soft water to the outside faucets.

 

[Smooky]

Some high efficiency toilets retain water in the lower part of the trap. I think he is saying that he thinks mineral deposits are building up in that part of the trap and causing things to hang up. Adding warm water is not going to help but softening the water might.
http://www.metaefficient.com/toilets/stealth-toilet.html
http://www.stthomascreations.com/performance.php
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/item/12430/flushing-out-the-ultra-water-efficient-stealth-toilet

 

[Jadnashua]

For the minerals to deposit or precipitate out of solution, you need one of two conditions: evaporation, or chemical addition of a material to cause the minerals to become insoluble. While there's evaporation that can easily occur on the bowl side of the weir, there often isn't a huge amount of air movement and the drain side is typically much more humid, limiting evaporation. IOW, IF there's any buildup there, it is much more gradual than potentially in the bowl. I've not seen this as a major issue, but my experience isn't huge. I do know how the toilets fared after nearly 50-years in the house I grew up in...no major issues. We replaced them to save water and update the style and colors, not because they failed to work anymore. Never had a water softener, and had moderately hard water. The toilets in my place were about 20-years old when replaced...didn't work great from when I moved in, and were updated for that and water saving. I liked the style better, too.

 

[Standardairconditioner]

Warm water into a toilet isn't going to help a hard water situation at all.

It was merely an example of how I chose to do something unusual to a toilet, when a lot of folks would find the idea crazy. Who would put warm water in a toilet? Obviously enough to invent the Toilet Tank Anti-sweat Valve. I could have swapped a new toilet, where the tank is insulated. But I love my old toilet. It's my toilet, it's my house, I decide I want to keep it.

Cold water makes the toilet tank condensate. Just like a cold can of beer. The condensation stops when the tank has warm water. That's why your hot coffee doesn't condensate. I solved the problem by changing the water supply.

If you think you can solve your problem by changing the water supply, do it. Most folks only soften water for their laundry room, but you can do it for whereever you want to use it. Some people do choose to install softeners at the main valve, so their whole home is softened. It's not illegal, it's your home.

You know how much you love your toilet. Or how much it'll cost to replace the toilet with a new one. Or how much it'll cost to get softer water there. There's no right solution. You decide.