Treatment Recommendation for Well Water

[thisnameiscreative]

Hello! We're currently looking for a water treatment for our house that uses well water, and I've been reading this forum and learning lots about different treatment systems. Thank you!

We had a couple of people come out to test our water and give quotes. Below is the info we got on the water (range due to different people telling us different things):

Hardness: 15 - 20
Iron: 1 - 1.5 PPM
TDS: 450 ppm

It's a 4 bedroom house, but there will be only two people in the house most of the time.

Right now we're deciding between two softeners, both with 32,000 grain capacity:
Evolve EVR (http://www.evolveseries.com/wp-cont...Softener-Spec-Sheet-LIT-EV-SOFT-SPE-11-17.pdf)
Clack WS1 single tank on demand system

The Evolve EVR also uses a Clack valve, but what we like about the EVR is that it only use around 30 gallons water during each regeneration (thus half the amount of salt required compared to the Clack). Price wise there isn't a significant difference for it to affect our decision.

I've browsed the internet to find out more information on the Evolve EVR, but I can hardly find any consumer information on it. My question to you all is - which softener would you recommend? The EVR does have better/longer warranty on both parts and labor, but could I safely assume I don't need to worry too much about servicing Clack products?

My other question is, should I get an iron cartridge filter on top of the water softener? One of the companies we got a quote from recommended the filter. The iron content in my water is not too high, so the clack valve may be adequate. I'm just curious how much having an iron filter will improve the lifespan of the water softener based on my current water conditions. I got a quote for filter/cartridge installation at $550 (for Pentair Pentek RFFE10-BB and RFFE20-BB). Is that reasonable?

On top of the softener, my spouse really wants a whole house carbon filter. We may go with the Fleck 5600SXT (1.5 cubic ft) unless you have other recommendations and/or if you, like me, don't think we need one.

Thank you!

 

[Reach4]

Keep studying. You should not act on the systems you have described before more study. I understand this is part of your study.

Your water test needs more info. pH, manganese, arsenic, corrosivity come to mind.

Do you also get a smell from your water?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[LLigetfa]

my spouse really wants a whole house carbon filter

What does your spouse expect it to remove?

 

[ditttohead]

most modern systems can be programmed to use a lot less water. Please understand nothing is free. there is no "secret valve" or special media that defies physics or common sense. Using less water will create its own unique problems. I can program any system to use less than 20 gallons per regeneration, it does not mean its a good idea. You will se a lot of buzz words, it is mostly marketing.

Do not bother with an "iron filter", these are nothing more than a radial flow cartridge filled with a manganese dioxide ore based media between the two filters. Their capacity is miniscule and their cost is very high.

As stated above, we need a lot more information on your water. pH, temperature, well design etc.

Also... you would not want to go with an "ultra efficient" system and ask it to remove iron at the same time, this is a very bad idea.

Check out NTL Labs ntllabs.com

This is my preferred test
http://www.ntllabs.com/Merchant2/me...NTL&Product_Code=9001&Category_Code=Homeowner
Not the cheapest test but very comprehensive and considering you have dug a hole in the ground and you intend to bathe and drink the water that came out of the hole... worth every penny.

 

[thisnameiscreative]

Thanks, all! I will definitely test the water to find additional information. Due to time sensitivity, we may just get something in place in the meantime and address anything (hopefully nothing) that comes up after we test the water. I know, I know, it's not ideal, but we have family coming over for Christmas and want them to have better water. :/

Reach4 - there is a slight smell from the water but it's not strong. Running water wise it doesn't have a lot of color (slightly yellow), but if we lift the toilet tank lid, the water in there is pretty yellow and murky. Our bathtub also has yellow stains. We had three companies come out to test the water, and the Kinnetico guy mentioned there may be tannin in the water, since the coloration is yellow, not orange.

LLigetfa - my spouse thinks a carbon filter will just make the water cleaner and taste better. I will try to convince him we need to get a better understanding of the water before putting one in. I too believe we may not need it at all.

ditttohead - thank you for your wisdom. From reading this forum you seem to have a lot of knowledge on water treatment systems and your advice is much appreciated!

Thanks again, all!

 

[Bannerman]

While Ditttohead mentioned not bothering with an "iron filter", he is referring to a cartridge type filter.

As iron as low as 0.3 ppm will often cause problems, the amount you state is considerable enough to consider an iron reduction system prior to the softener. While a softener can be effective in reducing iron, that doesn't mean a softener is the most effective or efficient method, particularly when higher than 1 ppm. A softener is also not effective for reducing sulfer odor whereas other iron reduction methods are generally effective for that also.

 

[ditttohead]

Yellow... hmmm, that says something interesting though not an absolute. It is likely tannins related... I would tend to listen to local companies rather than us schlubbs on a forum. Local guys tend to know the local water conditions far better than us guys on a forum pontificating the possibilities.

If you have tannins, iron, hardness... I would probably lean towards a unique media called EcoMix or something similar. It used to be carried by Clack but... I can only assume they dropped it due to too many companies overstating the medias abilities. If you read through much of the Clack literature you will notice they are very conservative with their numbers. This is a great thing! If you use their medias at their specified ranges they usually work flawlessly. EcoMix works when used conservatively, I would not recommend using it at the upper ends of its stated abilities without assuming some issues may arise.

Tannins tend to be very difficult since tannins can vary massively. In Florida tannins can be derived from peat moss decomposition, in Oregon... Pine trees... etc...

The simple solution that is usually acceptable and effective is a tannin selective resin that is anion based and uses chloride as the regenerant. Since your water appears to have moderate levels of iron, hardness and possibly/likely tannins, a simple "EcoMix" type of media may be a simple solution. These "Hybrid" medias are not the most efficient but they tend to be effective when they are applied properly and they can last for many years with little service other than salt usage.

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/34-35


This type of media has little affect on the odor unless the odor is derived from the tannins.. which is likely since some tannins can have an "organic/musty/earthy" odor.

Can you describe the odor?

Maybe add a simple RO or high end carbon block at the kitchen sink for the drinking water... I would still recommend a full water test... just my opinion.

 

[thisnameiscreative]

Thanks, Bannerman and ditttohead! Taking all of your advice, we're planning to do some additional water testing to figure out what system we'd need (specifically, pH, manganese, and tannin). In the meantime, I was able to fish out the initial well drilling & water report that was done last summer when the well was drilled (August 2016). It looks like the drilling method of the well was rotary, its depth is 163 ft, and the casing material is plastic. The static water is 69 ft below ground. The pumping level is 150 ft. After 3 hours of pumping 5 gpm (this part I'm not familiar with so please pardon me if I typed/worded it incorrectly). The nearest known source of contamination is a city sewer 55 ft north of our well. There are still other information on the report about the well, so let me know if I'm missing anything.

For the initial well water report, there were no coliform bacteria, and nitrate was below 1.0 mg/L. However, arsenic is a little high at 6.65 micrograms per liter. We'll plan on getting a RO system in the kitchen sink.

I will keep you all posted once we get test results. Thank you all so much!

 

[Reach4]

However, arsenic is a little high at 6.65 micrograms per liter.

MCL is 10, so I think that is worth treating. I put my iron+h2s filter in mainly for the smell. It is effective on both. The happy surprise was that my arsenic went from 6 to below the 2 test sensitivity of the test I got and below the 1 test sensitivity for another test on my post-iron-filter water. My filter uses 1.5 cuft of Centaur Carbon media, but I expect Katalox Light would have the same effect. One advantage to my Centaur filter, is that it is a form of catalytic carbon, which may make your wife feel better. My filter uses a 5 gpm backwash. For KL, 7 or 8 gpm would be called for.

If you come up negative on the tannins, I think a nice backwashing iron filter will take out the iron, the smell (I presume H2S, which is hard to lab test for), as well as the arsenic. If you have tannins, that would change things as to what filtering would be appropriate.

 

[thisnameiscreative]

We got some test results back (waiting on manganese), so here's an updated listing of our water testing results:

Hardness: 15 - 20
Iron: 1.5 PPM
TDS: 450 ppm
pH: 7.93 mg/L
Tannins: 0.6 mg/L
Arsenic: 6.65 micrograms per liter

There seem to be tannins but it doesn't seem very high, but correct me if I'm wrong. Our bathtub is stained yellow - I'm not sure if that's primarily due to the iron or the tannin, or both. If you all don't think there's enough tannin to do staining damage, I may not treat it after all. Thoughts?

Thank you!

 

[thisnameiscreative]

Also, since the pH came a little above 7 mg/L (7.93), does that mean it's not a good idea to use the water softener to take out iron?

 

[ditttohead]

Typically a softener works much better for iron reduction at lower pH levels. Higher pH will tend to cause the iron to bond to the resin. Acidifying the brine water tends to reduce this problem but at 1+ pm iron and pH above 7.5 I would lean toward removing the iron first.

Tannins are tricky. Even very low levels can be rpoblematic, or not noticeable, it really depends on what is making up the tannins,

here is an old article that I have found useful. https://www.wwdmag.com/membrane-technology/tannin-removal