Toto Soirée with 13 inch rough in can I squeeze the 14 unifit or stick with the 12

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by MikeC1234, Jan 1, 2015.

  1. MikeC1234

    MikeC1234 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Location:
    New York
    Hello,

    First time posting. Just wanted to start off thanking everyone who contributes as over the years I've learned so much from this forum.

    I recently purchased a small home with only one bathroom that I am renovating before moving in. I hired a plumber recommended by a friend who does side work to relocate the plumbing and drain lines for a better layout. The flange was roughed in to exactly 13 inches to where the finished tile wall tile will be. Also, the waster supply is 8 inches to the left and comes out of the floor and not the wall.

    My wife wants the toto soirée. I was wondering if I can go for the unifit adapter for a 14 inch RO so the toilet sits as close to the wall as possible. The dimension sheet on the toto website makes it seem there is only a 3/4 inch space behind the tank and the wall. I was hoping some of you that have experience installing this model could give me an opinion if I'd be able to squeeze it in.

    Cheers and happy new year to all.

    Mike
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    I had considered that toilet. I was thinking like you are. Looking at the actual toilet, its skirt goes pretty close to the wall at the base, so if you have baseboard and/or shoe molding, you may not be able to ignore that. Also the Soiree is a little wider at the wall than some, so there needs to be some clearance for the water supply valve.

    I never got that Soiree, so I cannot really give experience.

    I had a rough-in a little over 13 inches, and I had bought a 14 inch Unifit to use for a Vespin 2. No way the 14 would have fit as intended. I decided I would drill my own holes in one of the 2 Unifits for a custom distance. After much study, I ended up using the included 12 inch Unifit. I had a 4-inch cast iron flange, and was able to be sure there was no interference in the path at the exit of the Unifit.

    Because I had a second bathroom, I was able to spend extra time fitting and measuring. Good thing I was not paying myself by the hour.

    In this picture, don't take readings from the ruler. There is a lot of parallax. The unused regular slots are about 12 inches from the wall rather than the 11-1/8 that they appear to be. The asymmetry of my new holes to the right of the official slots is because that is how the closet bolts on my flange were. Surprisingly, the center of the output hole is beyond (to the right of in the picture) the center of the official closet bolt slots. That worked to my benefit. The Unifit output hole totally clears the hole in my flange because it is a 4 inch flange.
     

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    Last edited: Jan 2, 2015
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  4. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Location:
    New York, NY
    I'm confused. You had a guy relocate everything and he intentionally gave you a 13" rough-in? I'm guessing there must have been a technical reason (i.e. joists or something)? And he intentionally gave you an out-of-the-floor water supply?

    Eight inches will clear the width of the base, which is just under 12", so just under 6" either side of the flange centerline.

    The 13" is another issue. No, it won't just fit. It is possible, just possible, that someone with the skill set of a Terry could do the install by "cheating" the adapter a little forward over the flange and give you the 1/4" you need. Given that many plumbers don't like to read directions and therefore find just putting in a Unifit to be some kind of heroic achievement, I'm dubious. I also have concerns about whether your tiled wall is really going to be exactly 13" from the centerline when you haven't built it yet. A little-thick application of grout, a little mispositioning of the wallboard, a not-perfectly-vertical wall, tile that's a little thicker than expected, and you're out of luck. And toilet casting of Totos is pretty-precise because of the particular clay they use, but it still isn't exactly-perfect to the spec sheet measurements, and no manufacturer would ever claim that it is (indeed, American Standard usually gives a range of clearances from the wall on their sheet, because they don't know how big a particular casting will be once it comes out of the kiln having shrunk a substantial percentage of the size of the out-of-the-mold clay). So your unit could be a 1/4" larger than expected, etc.

    The safe move is to just use the 12" adapter. But discuss it with your plumber, measure super-carefully, and see what he thinks.

    Your wife sounds like a smart individual.

    PS You're a little in luck because the toilet will always come with a 12" adapter, which you just toss if you have ordered and used the 14" one. Nobody wants them because they accumulate fast in the back of the plumber's truck, given that the skirted toilets are often purchased precisely because they fit well on 10" or 14". So...you could take delivery of the Soiree that your wise wife likes, along with the a 14" Unifit, lay it out on the floor and see if your plumber can cheat the adapter forward enough over the flange that the toilet fits and yet go on so that there are no leaks between adapter and flange and the outflow pipe from the adapter isn't blocked. If that fails, install the 12" one that you have anyway and live with the additional 1" gap between Soiree and wall. You'll get used to it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2015
  5. MikeC1234

    MikeC1234 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2015
    Location:
    New York
    Thanks for the replies.

    Reach- thanks for the info and especially the picture of the unifit fitting. Helps to see it from that angle.

    Wj- I'm not sure if he intentionally gave me a 13 in rough in to leave me more space for my finished wall or he just missed the mark, but it defiantly wasn't because of a joist ( a joist would not slow him down as he fully cut through one to put in the tub drain, but that will be another post for a carpentry forum).

    The more I think about it and from the responses, I think I'll stick with the 12 inch and not complicate my life more that it has to be. Plus, I also put in an electrical outlet 12 inches up from the floor a few inches to the left of the flange in case I ever decide to splurge on a washlet seat. Wouldn't want the outlet to become unusable if the tank or skirt is too close to get a plug in or out.

    Thanks again guys
     
  6. DavidC66

    DavidC66 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Location:
    Minnesota
    "After much study, I ended up using the included 12 inch Unifit. I had a 4-inch cast iron flange, and was able to be sure there was no interference in the path at the exit of the Unifit."
    Reach4, this is just the info I think I need. I have a 15.5" rough in and very limited space in front of the toilet. Need to get the Soiree back as far as possible. Hope to use a 14" Unifit and customize it like you did. I know it has been a couple years, but how far back do you think you were able to move the unifit by drilling your own holes? I also have a 4" flange, and can make sure that the inner diameter of the Unifit outlet is fully inside that flange. Also--does anybody worry this is risky in any way? Thanks!
     
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    In https://terrylove.com/forums/index....t-less-with-baseboard-and-shoe-molding.58080/ I had measured the 13-7/16 from the outside, but once I pulled the toilet it seems it was more like 13-3/8 on one side and 13-1/8 on the other as I remember it. So about 1.25 inches in my case. You might note that my two added holes for the closet bolts were a little asymmetric. I added the other two holes for good measure to better hold down the Unifit. The two extra holes may not have been needed.

    Once you get the toilet off you can measure the edge of the big hole in the flange and the edge of the hole in the Unifit. I predict a good outcome.

    I would use rings without the horn. I packed the circle with wax from two rings, and had extra squish out. But you don't want to have so much wax as to squish into the active path. So I think you would concentrate the wax in the outer part of the plastic circle. I had no prior experience, and I took my time.
     
  8. DavidC66

    DavidC66 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Location:
    Minnesota
    thanks--that helps
     
  9. Wannabee

    Wannabee New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2015
    Location:
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I have a 13.5" center line to wall measurement in an old house. What toilet can I use (12. 14.) What is the deal with the distance if a 12" goes in it will be a few inches for the tank from the wall? Thank you
     
  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Not a lot. It's mainly that an extra inch or two of space at the front of the toilet can be nice-- especially when there is a tub or wall close. Having a couple inches or so behind the tank may bother some too, but I expect for most it is more about maximizing the space for the user.

    Do you have a baseboard and shoe molding to consider? For some toilets, that can have an effect. So in most cases you could put a 14 inch rough in toilet on 13.5 inches. Without extra drilling or other unusual actions, there is still a little play in the placement of a toilet.

    If you are looking for a reliable inexpensive toilet, a good 12 inch rough in toilet with a nice trapway will perform the job at hand very effectively and economically despite a little extra space behind the tank.
     
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    There is no standard about how much distance there should be on a toilet from the back of it to the wall. All most companies guarantee is that if your rough in is exact, the toilet will fit without interference. One some toilets, that gap could be almost nil, to as much as a couple of inches. Most of the Totos that use the UniFit adapter have a nominal spec of 3/4" clearance behind them to the wall, but the spec sheet also says approximately - IOW, it could be more or less than that. As has been said by several, there is usually enough slop where the toilet attaches to the flange to shift it either forward or back some...usually at least 1/4" is available without a lot of effort...more might require some modifications to the flange. On a typical Toto, the outlet is about 2-1/8" ID, give or take a bit. The smallest toilet drain allowed is 3" in diameter, so about 1/2" either side. As long as the horn or outlet of the toilet is fully pointed down the drain and not blocked, it should work fine. Some brands and models of toilets tend to try to make a right-angle turn at the outlet, and that probably would have issues if it were offset, but Toto spent the time and effort to have theirs a nice curve to point things down the drain.
     
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