Top-rated Skirted Toto Washlet+ 2021

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Mart

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I was researching the Toto model MaP scores, looking for a skirted or partially skirted Toto Washlet+ that performs as well as the 1.6 GPF 2021 Drakes (i.e. C776CEFGT40 bowl, ST776SA tank/cover). I couldn’t find any Washlet+ models with a 1000g MaP rating, though there are some with 800 scores, such as the Vespin II, Utramax II, Carlyle II, Nexus, etc. Any suggestions as to which of those (or other models) typically perform the best in terms of flushing power and also have a decent size water spot, like the 2021 Drake?

I’m wondering what your experience is with the Nexus MW6423046CEFG in particular and whether the Unifit rough-ins are typically more prone to clogging, especially at 1.28 GPF max?
 

Terry

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Anything over 600 grams would be very good. My experience with the TOTO Vespin II, Utramax II, Carlyle II, Nexus products has been very good.
The Unifit is not prone to clogging, it's a good design. And if anything, say you flush your dentures down the toilet, at least you can pull the bowl and maybe have a chance of finding them because you can separate the two sections of the trapway to get a better look.

1,000 gram toilets. I sometimes get called out to pull and replace toilets that have been advertised to flush lots of golf balls and rubber snaky things.
Maybe Consumer Reports gave them a glowing review. And then my customer calls up and says,

"Hey Terry, we're done with it. Can you bring out the same TOTO toilets we had in our last house, when we bought off of your reviews?"

Sure, I run out there and pull their Champion toilets, toss a few, and then my neighbor across the street I remember that he reads that magazine, so I tell him I have some free stuff I'm pulling out, and I install them there. And then he asks my why I have these to give away. Hey Todd, not saying. You wanted them, and it saves me paying money at the solid waste station.

Do they work for him, yes. But when you compare the TOTO in your home, not just a breezy writeup from a journalist, then of course you're buying the TOTO.
I have customers that every time they move, I get a call for new toilets. I install a lot of these in my home, my kids homes, my brother and sisters homes. I've had quite a few brands in my home, just to get a feel for what they are like, and not the hype from the sales rep, that was frankly surprised that men wanted elongated bowls. Man, must be pussy whipped.

How many toilets have my son and I sold and installed? Must be thousands. For a while I was shipping out of eight states too. Bad idea though because the delivery drivers can't lift them. I quit that. Buy local.

The answer I'm sticking with. Yes, all of those TOTO toilets have been amazing. They sell themselves after people have had them in their homes. Heck, friends come over and they want them too after using them. They call me too.
 
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Mart

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Anything over 600 grams would be very good. My experience with the TOTO Vespin II, Utramax II, Carlyle II, Nexus products has been very good.
The Unifit is not prone to clogging, it's a good design. And if anything, say you flush your dentures down the toilet, at least you can pull the bowl and maybe have a chance of finding them because you can separate the two sections of the trapway to get a better look.

1,000 gram toilets. I sometimes get called out to pull and replace toilets that have been advertised to flush lots of golf balls and rubber snaky things.
Maybe Consumer Reports gave them a glowing review. And then my customer calls up and says,

"Hey Terry, we're done with it. Can you bring out the same TOTO toilets we had in our last house, when we bought off of your reviews?"

Sure, I run out there and pull their Champion toilets, toss a few, and then my neighbor across the street I remember that he reads that magazine, so I tell him I have some free stuff I'm pulling out, and I install them there. And then he asks my why I have these to give away. Hey Todd, not saying. You wanted them, and it saves me paying money at the solid waste station.

Do they work for him, yes. But when you compare the TOTO in your home, not just a breezy writeup from a journalist, then of course you're buying the TOTO.
I have customers that every time they move, I get a call for new toilets. I install a lot of these in my home, my kids homes, my brother and sisters homes. I've had quite a few brands in my home, just to get a feel for what they are like, and not the hype from the sales rep, that was frankly surprised that men wanted elongated bowls. Man, must be pussy whipped.

How many toilets have my son and I sold and installed? Must be thousands. For a while I was shipping out of eight states too. Bad idea though because the delivery drivers can't lift them. I quit that. Buy local.

The answer I'm sticking with. Yes, all of those TOTO toilets have been amazing. They sell themselves after people have had them in their homes. Heck, friends come over and they want them too after using them. They call me too.
 

Mart

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Great feedback, thanks so much. Your high regard for the brand in general is so reassuring. Toto sure has its legions of fans, and apart from complaints about cleaning issues on models with minimal water spots, it’s hard to find detractors. We’re replacing our many old (circa 2000) 3 GPF, American Standard units, which have NEVER clogged, since we never flush things we shouldn’t or avoidable volumes that could prove problematic. I have no doubt that almost any Toto would perform as well or better, but I’ll never hear the end of it if the ones I install don’t! (Kidding!)

I’m leaning towards a skirted two-piece, which I’m guessing would probably be a tad easier/lighter for me to install, carrying them up and down stairs and all. So, if you had to pick between the Nexus MW4423046CEFG(A) and the Vespin II MW4743056CEFG(A), which do you think would be closest in performance to the Drake? And finally, what about their relative stability, given their slightly different stabilizing “technologies”? The Nexus certainly looks nicer, but I’m wondering about its comparative side-to-side stability.
 

breplum

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We will not install Nexus nor Aquia ever again because of that moronic design for holding down to the floor.
When they show up in job specs, we tell the customer to change it or find another plumber.
 

Reach4

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Note that the Vespin II is only held in place by the very back of the toilet going down into the Unifit. So it looks like the front of toilet could easily pivot. So why doesn't it slide? It's the caulking! The acrylic caulk provides enough resistance to sliding. Structural caulk!

I did not realize that the Nexis and Aquia were less stable.

There are places that set toilet bases in plaster of Paris or even mortar. Maybe those would work well with Nexis and Aquia.
 

Mart

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Thanks, Breplum and Reach4 — I was inclined to go with the Nexus, but was a bit nervous about the Unifit, prior to Terry’s reassurance. I probably wouldn’t be caulking it, as it’s not required in my neck of the woods and my existing American Standard skirted sits just fine without it. Any others have thoughts on this Nexus model? Would I be best to go with the 2021 Drake, cosmetics aside?
 

Terry

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The Nexus uses an adapter at the floor and anchor blocks for securing the bowl. I've been installing hundreds of Aquia, Nexus and other products that use the adapter over the years, and in my own home at times. Some plumbers get annoyed at things that are outside their comfort zone. I'm not that way. I find it fun and interesting to see the changes and improvements over the years. I had a harder time installing a direct vent water heater that needed an extension kit yesterday. I can install these TOTO products in my sleep I've done so many.

tsu10w-12-terrylove-02.jpg


The one-piece Nexus. It also comes at the two-piece.
After installation, I use a PolySeamSeal clear around the bowl. Helps to stick them, and helps to keep liquids from getting under the bowl. You know how boys are.

ms642-terrylove-01.jpg


This guy is a happy camper too.
 

Mart

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Thanks, Terry, and also for your many other insights on the Unifit system over the years, such as this good one: https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/toto-unifit-or-flange-offset.36801/

If there’s a leak at the wax with the PolySeam Seal around most of the visible area, I assume the open uncaulked area at the back would still allow the water to escape for ready leak detection, rather than pooling on the subfloor and rotting and/or flowing through the ceiling, right?

With these units being about 110 lbs, are they still manageable for one unassisted man to cart upstairs and install, or do they typically require two guys, given their extra weight and awkwardness to lift?

I’m guessing that one advantage to this system as well is that they aren’t set directly on the wax seals, but rather on the Unifits; which might help to minimize any potential leakage issues during and after install? I’ve noted your advice to use two wax rings if the flange is below the tile floor line, which mine is, but would one Oatey Jumbo reinforced Johny-Ring suffice?

3CEF1344-B289-4DE1-9195-B15A44F347F2.jpeg
 

Terry

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In Washington State code, we're just South of you, we leave the caulking open at the back so that if there is a wax seal leak it's spotted quickly.
A jumbo wax ring also works with a low flange.

110 pounds is heavy for many people. I know plenty of plumbers that hate installing one-piece toilets for that reason. I actually prefer them, but then I'm a pretty big person.
 

Mart

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Do you happen to know if the fill & flush valves with the Nexus toronado system are the pretty much the same as the ones in the Drake 1.28 GPF? Also, with a near-equivalent water spot in the 1.28 GPF Nexus as in the 1.6 GPF 2021 Drake, would the flushing power or drainline carry in the former be noticeably inferior to the latter (noting your positive general take on performance above.)
 
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