Toilet still runs after FlushAll flapper and valve replacement...

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Soulbarn

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It is a 1996 model American Standard toilet. It had been running mildly without stopping for a long while, so the local hardware store recommend that I replace the flapper, which I did, with a Kenney K835-9 FlushAll. That didn't solve the problem, and the valve assembly was really old and crusty, so I replaced that, too, with a Fluidmaster 400A. Same problem. I've noticed that water just doesn't stop flowing from the tube that's connected to the overflow pipe, even if I manually raise the float to its highest possible position; and there's water flowing into the bowl, as well. This

I've double-checked for leaks and proper sealing inside the tank where the valve and flapper are attached, and I'm pretty sure everything is secure. So what's the next step? I've attached a video if you think would be useful.


Thanks, this is a super-helpful community!
 
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Reach4

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've noticed that water just doesn't stop flowing from the tube that's connected to the overflow pipe, even if I manually raise the float to its highest possible position; and there's water flowing into the bowl, as well. This

I've double-checked for leaks and proper sealing inside the tank where the valve and flapper are attached, and I'm pretty sure everything is secure. So what's the next step? I've attached a video if you think would be useful.
I think your new fill valve is defective somehow. You may be able to replace the top part without changing the stem. I am not a pro.
 

Smooky

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The fill valve looks to tall. If you got the proper size fill valve, the height may need to be adjusted.

Also how high is the over flow over the water line in the tank? It should be about a half inch.
 
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WJcandee

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Here's the answer:

Right now, its still running because the water is overflowing the top of the overflow riser. Normally, I would tell you just to lower the level at which the fill valve shuts off, because the water isn't getting high enough relative to the fill valve to fully-shut-off the fill valve.

However, it looks to me like the fill valve float is fully-submerged and has pressed the shutoff off. But the thing is still running.

So, after trying the above, which probably won't work (i.e. lower the shutoff point for the fill valve), there are two possibilities. One is that the valve is defective. The other is that your water pressure is so high that it is pushing past the fill valve even through it's trying to shut off the water.

Both are unusual, but I would first try just replacing the fill valve (and get the Korky 528MP ("Platinum"); it's just easier for homeowners to install properly).

I would also buy a cheap water-pressure valve that you can screw on to like a hose bib and check the pressure. If it's much above 75, you've got a higher-than-normal pressure. But that valve should probably hold back pressure to 85 or more, so if it's a pressure issue, you're gonna get a very high reading. Most people are comfortable with 60psi on the low side to 75 on the upper side. 80 is about as high as you'd want to see.

A little valve like this http://www.homedepot.com/p/3-4-in-Plastic-Water-Pressure-Test-Gauge-DP-IWTG/100175467?cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|G|0|G-BASE-PLA-D26P-Plumbing|&gclid=CKyv7PmknM4CFcIkhgodQFUIHw&gclsrc=aw.ds is something you can screw on and leave for 24 hours or more; the one hand tells you what it is now, the other hand tells you how high it has gone. Sometimes, it's normal during the day and goes way up overnight when nobody is releasing the pressure, etc.

To review: (1) adjust the 400A lower and see if it shuts off about 1/2" below the top of the overflow riser; (2) replace the 400A, maybe with a 528MP that you have adjusted so the line on the valve is 1/2" below the top of the overflow riser, and see if it shuts off at the right place; (3) if 1 and 2 don't work, then check your water pressure, which is likely way too high.

EDIT: Looking carefully at your video, the water is already WAAAAY over the top of the float, which it shouldn't be. The float on the 400A usually lets the water almost overflow it, then pops up and shuts off the water. The top of it should never be submerged in normal operation.

One possibility, and it's hard to see from your video, is that you have installed it so that it is rubbing against the side of the tank and can't pop up all the way. Make sure that it can float freely. You would just need to loosen the nut below (with an empty tank) a smidge, then spin the thing a little bit clockwise to clear the side of the tank, then tighten the nut; if that's the issue. If it's not, then step (1) is probably already moot, but I would check to make sure the float is moving freely.

Frankly, from your recitation of the original symptoms before you did anything, I'm guessing water pressure, but let's do the cheap and easy steps first. If you want to post a video of the flush and refill, that might help, too, but I think we've given you everything you need.
 
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Soulbarn

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Thanks, all. I solved the problem. The culprit appears to have been a malfunctioning bidet attachment. It has worked fine for years via a t-handle that attaches to the bottom of the tank in-between the fill mechanism and the main water hose. The bidet is activated by switching the T to the correct position, but there's also a faucet-like control at the head of the bidet wand (see picture). I think that the T was allowing water to be diverted to the bidet even when it was in the off position, though the wand's controller kept it from leaking. So my theory (I'm not a plumber, so just guessing) is that when the water that was leaking through the t into the bidet reached the end of the wand, it backed up and emerged through the path of least resistance, the filler. Does that sound plausible? In any case, I removed the bidet and the T and directly connected the water supply, the filler worked perfectly.

Sorry for omitting the info about my setup before. I didn't think it was relevant. Lesson learned!

Thanks to all.
 

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WJcandee

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I removed the bidet and the T and directly connected the water supply, the filler worked perfectly.

By that do you mean that the fill valve shut off when it was supposed to? I.e. a half inch or so below the top of the overflow riser?

The logic of the bidet filler operation and how it would affect things isn't really on-target, but if in pulling it off you solved the problem, then great!

That's the most important thing. Plainly what was going on was out of the ordinary. If it starts having issues again, then run through the steps in my post above.
 

Flapper

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Debree in the valve would cause this issue. It is common to get debree in the valve after installing; the debree prevents the valve from sealing completely and it leaks through. You should flush out the valve using the procedure in the owner's manual. Why hasn't anyone mentioned this??
 
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