Tankless water heater recommendation

[Bodrey]

Does anyone have a recommendation on a tankless water heater? HD sells the Aquastar, Bosch and Paloma brands. I know nothing about any of these companies, whether their products are good or bad, reliable, etc. Also, is it worth paying more to get one with a higher GPM rate? It seems they start around 3.5 gallons per minute and go up from there. I live alone but if I were ever to sell I'm wondering if a 3.5 GPM unit would be insufficient for a family. The only concern I saw from one of the user reviews is as follows...

"This has been a great heater, significantly lowering our costs, however, it only provides a 70 deg F temperature rise. In winter, our cold water is about 40deg F (5deg C) to 110F. This provides a good shower, but is not hot enough for dishes, etc.

Any advice/recommendations as far as performance, brand reliability, etc. would be appreciated.

 

[hj]

heater

Some of us think that asking us for a recommendation for a tankless heater, is like asking vegetarians where to find a good steak house. In other words using "good" and "tankless" in the same sentence is an oxymoron.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Sjsmithjr]

Performance of even a well made tankless unit depends upon many variables like:

• Where do you live? Some parts of the US are better suited for a tankless than others.

• Do have "city water" or use a well? Do you have to treat your water?

• What is the temperature of the incoming water?

• Do you have adequate gas service? Electric is out of the question.

• How many and what types of plumbing fixtures do you have that use hot water?

• Even if you choose a quality brand with a good reputation, what is the availability of parts and service for it in your area?

• You mentioned resell. Will the new owners be satisfied with only being able to run certain fixtures at the same time? Hard to answer that one.

• And most importantly, what are the plumbing code requirements for installation where you live?

Brace yourself. The topic of tankless water heaters are second only to religion for the spirited debates they can spark!

 

[SewerRatz]

Depending on how many fixtures in the home that uses hot water, you may need to install more thanone unit to meet the demand for future owners. Give this thread a read. https://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26706

 

[NHmaster]

The projected 4.8% savings over a conventional tank type high efficiency heater will take the better part of 20 years use to hit the break even point. The required annual maintenance on the unit (descaling) will more than likely negate any savings at all and in fact if you project those costs over the life of the heater, make tankless heaters more expensive to operate.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

Please>>>>>not again>>>>>>>>>>>

please say it aint so......

not again, sweet mother of god

not again

 

[SewerRatz]

Oh come on now guys, let people spend their money we need to stimulate the economy, might as well do it and make everyone feel they are being green at the same time. They feel good for spending the money on a system that has a lot more hype than facts posted about, we feel good since we made some money and could pay our bills. It is sad though when you do an Internet search about tankless water heaters there is like 10000 pages of hype to the 1 page that gives straight forward answers like the one A.O. Smith has out there.

 

[NHmaster]

You wanna go green? Get a bucket of paint. VOC free please. Cause there ain't nothing green about tankless heaters. In fact because they burn a 200,000 btu + they spew 4 to 5 times more carbon out than standard heaters.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

what about my site???

It is sad though when you do an Internet search about tankless water heaters there is like 10000 pages of hype to the 1 page that gives straight forward answers like the one A.O. Smith has out there.

you are 100% right , and I need to get the link from you
to that info so I can put it on my tankless info site
please post that link for me would you ??
.

the two guys argueing and in each others face on my site
can be basically about anyone here going at it
for the past three weeks.

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/

 

[SewerRatz]

Here you go the PDF from A.O. Smith http://www.pseg.com/customer/home/install/pdf/prostar_Q&A.pdf or you can use the jpgs from my photo bucket account.

http://www.pseg.com/customer/home/install/pdf/prostar_Q&A.pdf

 

[Ladiesman271]

You wanna go green? Get a bucket of paint. VOC free please. Cause there ain't nothing green about tankless heaters. In fact because they burn a 200,000 btu + they spew 4 to 5 times more carbon out than standard heaters.

Look at the proposed pollution limit changes for small water heaters (those with under 75,000 BTU input). That should make all water heaters much better and easier to maintain. What are the chances that no complicated electronics will be required on those old fashioned tank type water heaters that now use simple controls!



Proposed changes in California pollution requirements for small water heaters (under 75,000 BTU input)

 

[Redwood]

Look at the proposed pollution limit changes for small water heaters (those with under 75,000 BTU input). That should make all water heaters much better and easier to maintain. What are the chances that no complicated electronics will be required on those old fashioned tank type water heaters that now use simple controls!



Proposed changes in California pollution requirements for small water heaters (under 75,000 BTU input)

Ummm Laddy Boy those "proposed" emission standards have already been in effect in the South Coast Air Quality Management District, SCAQMD Rule 1121 (10ng/J NOx limit).

Here is a spec sheet for one of the water heaters you question.
http://www.bradfordwhite.com/images/shared/pdfs/specsheets/112-B.pdf

Any time you need a plumber to give you more depth to you shallow knowledge base... Let me know...

 

[Ladiesman271]

Does anyone have a recommendation on a tankless water heater? HD sells the Aquastar, Bosch and Paloma brands. I know nothing about any of these companies, whether their products are good or bad, reliable, etc. Also, is it worth paying more to get one with a higher GPM rate? It seems they start around 3.5 gallons per minute and go up from there. I live alone but if I were ever to sell I'm wondering if a 3.5 GPM unit would be insufficient for a family. The only concern I saw from one of the user reviews is as follows...

"This has been a great heater, significantly lowering our costs, however, it only provides a 70 deg F temperature rise. In winter, our cold water is about 40deg F (5deg C) to 110F. This provides a good shower, but is not hot enough for dishes, etc.

Any advice/recommendations as far as performance, brand reliability, etc. would be appreciated.

Watch out.

The lower end tankless heaters do no control the outgoing water temperature with a thermostat. A lot of them will have a modulating burner control setting and a water volume control setting. They maintain water temperature rise based only on water flow. These low end units do not adjust for changes in incoming water temperature. The control setup has to be adjusted by season to compensate for incoming water temperature variations.

Look for a unit that clearly states that the unit has a modulating gas burner that is controlled by a thermostat that measures the outgoing water temperature. If you are interested in any specific unit, go to the manufacturers web site and read the instruction manual for the unit in question. Those manuals may be of help to you, but maybe not.

 

[Ladiesman271]

Ummm Laddy Boy those "proposed" emission standards have already been in effect in the South Coast Air Quality Management District, SCAQMD Rule 1121 (10ng/J NOx limit).

Here is a spec sheet for one of the water heaters you question.
http://www.bradfordwhite.com/images/shared/pdfs/specsheets/112-B.pdf

Any time you need a plumber to give you more depth to you shallow knowledge base... Let me know...

Well since that is the only unit that you sell, then you are all set!

 

[Redwood]

Well since that is the only unit that you sell, then you are all set!

Oh they have more...
I just didn't want to overload your memory!
Must be tough going through life with 64K of RAM.

 

[NHmaster]

Well since that is the only unit that you sell, then you are all set!

Blah Blah Blah

 

[NHmaster]

Blah Blah Blah

 

[gregsauls]

Does anyone have a recommendation on a tankless water heater? HD sells the Aquastar, Bosch and Paloma brands. I know nothing about any of these companies, whether their products are good or bad, reliable, etc. Also, is it worth paying more to get one with a higher GPM rate? It seems they start around 3.5 gallons per minute and go up from there. I live alone but if I were ever to sell I'm wondering if a 3.5 GPM unit would be insufficient for a family. The only concern I saw from one of the user reviews is as follows...

"This has been a great heater, significantly lowering our costs, however, it only provides a 70 deg F temperature rise. In winter, our cold water is about 40deg F (5deg C) to 110F. This provides a good shower, but is not hot enough for dishes, etc.

Any advice/recommendations as far as performance, brand reliability, etc. would be appreciated.

Getting a "fair" question regarding tankless water heaters from this website will be a joke at best and a complete attack on your intelligence at worst. Do what I did last year.... Figure out your TOTAL hot water needs, your cold water inlet temp (lowest average), and what the piping is like in your house size wise (both water and gas). Once you have those FACTS as they apply to YOUR situation you can begin to make an educated guess on YOUR needs.

A tankless unit isn't for everyone in every situation, however, a tankless system will work for far more than some of the so called pro's on here will admit to. When I was researching a unit to go in MY home last summer I looked at what the big box stores had to offer. I found that they didn't have the modulated burner feature that would allow for variable gas consumption and thus true variable hot water output without restricting flow prematurely or in place of burner control. A couple of the "upper end" tankless units had the ability to vary the burner based on hot water demand. Those units were what I narrowed my choice to.... it was so tempting to run to Lowes and make a quick purchase but I am glad I didn't do that.

Trust no one... do your research. If you don't feel comfortable with this path... go hire a plumber and give him you checkbook.

 

[hj]

tankless

I believe it was Will Rogers who said, "Never argue about politics or religion". I guess we can add tankless heaters and putty/silicone to that list, because there will never be a definitive settlement to it.

 

[NHmaster]

Here's the part that kills me. For some warped reason you seem to think we are against tankless heaters because we are against new technology ? Look, if the products performed to homeowners expectations and there were not warranty problems and service issues and they actually delivered on their promise why wouldn't we want to sell and install them? I can make damn good money selling and installing them can't I? I am after all in business to make money and any product that Performs well would certainly be an opportunity to make more. We are against them because of the numerous problems associated with them and we all have enough integrity not to be pushing problems on our customers. Those home owners that have decided to hack one in for themselves don't ever have to deal with unhappy customers, questions and call backs. Nor do they have to answer to inspectors or anyone other than their wives and family. So no, you guys are not going to get a glowing endorsement of these things from professionals that deal with them day in and day out. If you are in love with yours than great, but neither one of you has enough experience to be giving anybody advice on the subject.