Softener Air gap fitting recommendation?

[Reach4]

Post a picture of yours. The image you did show does not have a vent. The concern is that the trap gets emptied by siphon action, and smells come out the top.

A softener with a 10x54 inch tank backwashes at 2.4 gpm. Is that going to cause your 2-inch standpipe to siphon out? Right after backwash, the drain starts putting out a much lower amount of water-- on the order of 1 gpm. I have a hard time thinking that that flow rate would allow a 2-inch standpipe to siphon. As far as code goes, it needs a vent. I am not a pro.

The backup into the basement thing is not a common worry. A backup could happen from the floor drain or laundry tub or laundry standpipe too.

roswell65's softener plumbing into the main line seems iffy to me - the connecting lines just hanging in the air and the softener prone to being knocked over.

His tubing hangers seem good to me, but two more hangers might make it look better. Are you concerned about the 18 or 24 inch flex lines carrying the water to and from the softener?

It is normal in non-earthquake areas to not have restraining straps on a softener tank. In earthquake areas, they even put restraining straps on water heaters. I think I see your point that rigid pipes would provide some tip-resistance.

 

[Treeman]

Reach,
My 1950's house has the bathroom "system" at one end with its own wet vent for sink/tub/toilet. At the other end of the house is the kitchen "system" with what my plumber described as a dry vent up through the roof. He installed the new softener stand pipe/trap close to where the sink drain connects into the 3 inch horizontal main. He stated that dry vents are generally not installed these days, my current venting works, and that I did not need to make further changes...my reason to use a plumber this time because of my vent confusion. He had it installed in less than 20 minutes and cut me a break because I know him.

My other questions:

roswell65's softener "seems" to be connected to the 45 degree hard copper that is just hanging free in the air 3 feet or more. Every softener I've seen in my area is plumbed similar to this picture (off the net) with the pipes secured near the wall (with appropriate valving/bypass, etc.):

And, I thought that maybe movement of his suspended/drooping discharge hose (from water pressure on/off) might wear through at the suspension points. Just DIY nonsense on my part.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Cacher_Chick]

From what you have described, your installation may work fine but it will not meet code, and should be flagged if the home is ever inspected for sale.

 

[Treeman]

cacher_chick, could you explain why. I asked questions before install to make sure this project was doable. This is a professional, licensed plumber that does both residential and commercial installations. He pointed out things that have changed with the new codes, yet recommended that I don't change anything.

 

[Reach4]

install

How about posting a picture of your install.

That will be more clear in describing what you have.

 

[Treeman]

Reach4, I'm currently without means to take photos and its going to be several weeks before that changes.

I don't want to hijack this thread about softener air gaps. Maybe my description is wrong and maybe I took cacher_chicks comment wrong. I imagine many older homes have plumbing and electrical systems that are safe and functional built to codes 4+ decades ago. Do people update their homes to current codes every time a trades person steps in the house to do a minor change? Sorry that I stirred the pot with my questions.

 

[Reach4]

Do people update their homes to current codes every time a trades person steps in the house to do a minor change?

No.

Sorry that I stirred the pot with my questions.

It is not clear what you are attempting or intending.

 

[Reach4]

We would never recommend such an installation because when the main line becomes clogged all the waste is going to back up into the basement, and who knows how long it will take before anyone notices? If you are on city sewer, it could be others waste backing up into your basement.

Most of the time when we get a call for a backup, it is because the resident immediately noticed waste in their tub or shower. There is a limit of course, but it rarely gets beyond that.

After further thought, I better understand the point. If the house has septic, or overhead sewers, the laundry tub and laundry standpipe and any floor drains get pumped up high. This becomes the lowest drain on the gravity line. A clogged septic or sewer would cause overflow from this standpipe.

City sewer backing up that high seems unlikely, but possible.

The workaround would be to put a big plastic tub under the new standpipe.

I wonder if there is a reasonably priced floating ball check valve that could go into the standpipe.

 

[Treeman]

No.

It is not clear what you are attempting or intending.

Sorry. Going back to my original post in this thread, I was soliciting constructive criticism for roswell65's installation in order to:
- expand on another posters question "why use the drum trap vs. a P trap
- discuss the possible effluent backup into the basement via the softener standpipe that was brought up
- discuss if the free standing nature of roswell65's tank install is o.k..

I related my similar standpipe install and was called out for possible code noncompliance, venting etc. vs. my licensed plumber's thumbs up.

Again, just trying to understand everything better.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

When one adds a plumbing fixture where one did not exist before, it is beyond the scope of a repair, and therefore that additional plumbing must meet the current code. In many places, such a modification to the existing plumbing system is required to be permitted and inspected by the municipality.

There are very few cases where it is a problem for a plumber to add a properly vented standpipe to an existing plumbing system. The problem that more commonly exists in working on existing finished structures is that sometimes one chooses to get paid to do a job that "works" rather than to risk losing the job because they quoted for it to be done to the requirements of the code.

 

[Treeman]

You are suggesting that the educated, licensed professional whose expertise we pay for and rely on sometimes don't do everything "by the book". Reality, I guess. I'm sure the pros that visit here chuckle about DIYer's botching things and the DIYer's complain that we pay the big bucks for a pro and it still is done incorrect (sometimes).

Thank you. You are entering the realm of the "gray area", which most of life is. I'm against cobbling things. On the other hand, sometimes it is nearly impossible to do everything strictly by the book. I deal with OSHA where often the "experts" that oversee the regulations can't explain how to comply. We are dealing with this currently on the new Worker Protection Standard changes. Nerve racking.

Appreciate everyone's input. My apologies for taking this off topic from softener air gaps.