Softener Air gap fitting recommendation?

[ml1337]

Looking for recommendations on a decent air gap fitting for my softener discharge. There are tons of options online (they are hard to find at Blowes and Home Despot), not sure which ones are more "industry recommended". I'm planning on using a 2'' standpipe. Thanks

 

[Reach4]

That standpipe will be for only one softener? https://keeneymfg.com/system/assets/2013/original/PP855-69 Announcement no list.pdf?1319121533

Lowes shows Keeny PP855-69 in stock at a store I checked on their website. Menards have in the store, but Menards is not in PA.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[ml1337]

Yeah wish Menards was in PA. I read that the model you linked has some splashes and it doesn't look like it's very secure. I'm looking at this one https://www.freshwatersystems.com/p...pvc-sch40-airgap-15-pvc-sch40-12-id-barb.aspx

They have a PVC or ABS version. My standpipe is PVC so I figured I should go with that?

 

[Reach4]

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/274-275 and https://airgap.com/product-category/water-softener-airgaps/ show some airgaps, and that is not one of them. The one you propose may work great. I think the quality of plastics is important to long term durability, and I don't know that the one you are looking at is time proven. One good thing is that it is super easy to swap out later if it came to that.

I wonder what the threads are for.

I think you are saying you have a 1.5 inch PVC pipe sticking up that is not in a washer box.

They have a PVC or ABS version. My standpipe is PVC so I figured I should go with that?

If you are not gluing, it would not matter.

 

[ml1337]

My standpipe is going to be 2''.

In the page you linked from Impact I see a couple DLA models, they are the ones that glue directly onto the pipe. The one I selected (same brand) has threads and a barb fitting included. You glue a threaded adapter to the pipe and then you screw in the air gap. I guess the advantage is access to the p-trap from the standpipe to clear any clogs. It's going to be hard to fit a snake or a jet through an air gap that is permanently glued. Not that common a thing I'm sure, but that's the only advantage I could think of.

As to the other types, they seemed wobbly to me (and I saw a bunch of negative feedback because their design is prone to splashing). Regardless, I appreciate the links, I just want to make sure I'm not missing something because air gaps are really not that widespread.

 

[ditttohead]

Most push over the pipe, they fit tight. Not usually glued.

 

[roswell1965]

Yeah wish Menards was in PA. I read that the model you linked has some splashes and it doesn't look like it's very secure. I'm looking at this one https://www.freshwatersystems.com/p...pvc-sch40-airgap-15-pvc-sch40-12-id-barb.aspx

They have a PVC or ABS version. My standpipe is PVC so I figured I should go with that?

Thanks for the link. I just ordered that one.
I was thinking the softener hookup itself would be the challenge; turns out getting this drain done correctly is the real challenge.

 

[ml1337]

Thanks for the link. I just ordered that one.
I was thinking the softener hookup itself would be the challenge; turns out getting this drain done correctly is the real challenge.

Yes I also had the same reflection. Glad I could help someone.

 

[roswell1965]

I still may bring a professional in for this part of the install. I'm not entirely comfortable cutting into my sewer line. The sharkbite connections, cutting into the water pipes, not a big deal. I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around this part of it.

 

[ml1337]

I still may bring a professional in for this part of the install. I'm not entirely comfortable cutting into my sewer line. The sharkbite connections, cutting into the water pipes, not a big deal. I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around this part of it.

I hear you and felt the same way at first, but after much research and self-education I'm getting very comfortable with this.

I'm planning on building the entire standpipe system first, and I will then cut into my main sewer line (4 inches), and attach the built standpipe system with mission couplings (rubber sleeves). That's the way the pros do it, because you can't stretch that main sewer line enough to fit a glue-in coupling. So there is no way to mess that up since there will be no glue up of the PVC at the sewer line.

For the supply I'm going to challenge myself a little bit. I don't trust sharkbites so I will cut into my main line (1 inch) and sweat some copper. I'm going to teach myself that skill before, because I've never done any sweating. PEX yes but that's easy. If you can avoid sharkbite I would, I just can't trust an o-ring to outlast me. There is no effing way I'm going to allow a fitting to flood my house and cause $xx,xxx's in damages. There are excellent videos on YouTube on how to sweat copper and honestly it doesn't look hard at all. I figure if you're on this forum you must have some DIY tendencies. You can do it.

I'm literally saving thousands by DIYing this. For me that's worth it. The moment you call a plumber for the smallest thing, all your savings are going out the window. The other day I called a plumber to replace my water heater, and he charged me about $1,000/hour for labor alone (of course this wasn't detailed on the invoice, I just know how much the heater costs). That's outrageous. I bet he would show up at clients in a Lamborghini if he could fit his tools.

 

[roswell1965]

I hear you and felt the same way at first, but after much research and self-education I'm getting very comfortable with this.

I'm planning on building the entire standpipe system first, and I will then cut into my main sewer line (4 inches), and attach the built standpipe system with mission couplings (rubber sleeves). That's the way the pros do it, because you can't stretch that main sewer line enough to fit a glue-in coupling. So there is no way to mess that up since there will be no glue up of the PVC at the sewer line.

For the supply I'm going to challenge myself a little bit. I don't trust sharkbites so I will cut into my main line (1 inch) and sweat some copper. I'm going to teach myself that skill before, because I've never done any sweating. PEX yes but that's easy. If you can avoid sharkbite I would, I just can't trust an o-ring to outlast me. There is no effing way I'm going to allow a fitting to flood my house and cause $xx,xxx's in damages. There are excellent videos on YouTube on how to sweat copper and honestly it doesn't look hard at all. I figure if you're on this forum you must have some DIY tendencies. You can do it.

I'm literally saving thousands by DIYing this. For me that's worth it. The moment you call a plumber for the smallest thing, all your savings are going out the window. The other day I called a plumber to replace my water heater, and he charged me about $1,000/hour for labor alone (of course this wasn't detailed on the invoice, I just know how much the heater costs). That's outrageous. I bet he would show up at clients in a Lamborghini if he could fit his tools.

I haven't given up yet! I was close last night but after an entire day researching I believe I can do it.
Used sharkbite on my water heater install and I'm ok with it. They've been using this technology in Europe for decades and these fittings are rated 200psi. The pressure from my well/bladder tank is 50psi max. That will be the easy part! There seems to be resistance to the AAV's as they fail regularly so I'm going with a drum vent.

Here is a good video showing the tee prep to take the Fernco couplings:

My mockup:

 

[Stuff]

What's a drum vent?

 

[roswell1965]

What's a drum vent?

Drum trap! Not vent. Fixed.

 

[Stuff]

Drum trap! Not vent. Fixed.

I thought there was something new. Most places (codes) no longer allow drum traps for new installations.

 

[ml1337]

I'm sure the sharkbites work, but my concern is the long term reliability. For sure you will have to change your water heater before the ring goes bad, but for other more permanent connections I'm not sold... As for AAV, I'm actually the opposite and I think they should be OK. I too saw the comments on reliability, but a failure in this case is not going to result in an $$$ flood, so I'm more OK with it than Sharkbites...

And just to show I'm not some old fart, I love PEX, but my house is plumbed with copper so I just go with the flow

Good luck to us on this install.

 

[roswell1965]

Done! And I can testify this particular airgap from "fresh water systems" works like a charm - I was surprised at the force of the flow through the hose and not a drop of water out of the fitting. Good call, thanks again.

 

[ml1337]

Good job! Enjoy the soft water! I haven't started this project yet, will post when I'm done.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

We would never recommend such an installation because when the main line becomes clogged all the waste is going to back up into the basement, and who knows how long it will take before anyone notices? If you are on city sewer, it could be others waste backing up into your basement.

Most of the time when we get a call for a backup, it is because the resident immediately noticed waste in their tub or shower. There is a limit of course, but it rarely gets beyond that.

 

[Jakester]

What made you go with drum trap over a s / p trap?

 

[Treeman]

Can we have some more constructive criticism from the pros about some of this?

- I just had a 2" softener stand pipe with P trap installed by a plumber in my basement. For reference, in the above pictures mine "was installed" in the horizontal drain line directly above and to the left of the softener. I would have the same backup problem cacher_chick describes - effluent into the basement. Not a big deal in an unfinished utility basement, but are there code/health concerns?

- roswell65's softener plumbing into the main line seems iffy to me - the connecting lines just hanging in the air and the softener prone to being knocked over. Would it have been better to run the hard lines along, and attached to the wall for a more secure softener hook up?

- Finally, would it be better to attach the softener discharge line more often/securely to one of the existing copper lines instead of having it drape from joist to joist shown in the picture?

My install is similar to this picture, except it enters more from the side than the top:

Just trying to learn here. I'm not a plumber and am not qualified to critique this stuff.